I'd recommend a Mustang, for those short legs it will save $$$ in fuel over the others listed, and it should be far cheaper in maintenance than the King Airs (It is far cheaper than our E90 was and currently far cheaper than our TBM 700). It's a modern platform that's economical to operate and maintain. As Anthony said, that range should not be an issue. I did need to stop this spring from VNC-CPS with 4 full size adults on board coming back into 100 knot headwind, it was right on the border of being able to do it but figured everyone would want to stretch anyway rather than push it. Myself (210lbs) + 700lbs of people and 100lbs of baggage. For your given weight load and the closer distance to Indy that trip would have been easily doable.

IF you wanted more room, a little more speed, and more carrying capacity a CJ/CJ1 will fit nicely. Personally, I'd choose a G600TXI equipped CJ over a CJ1 as it's a modern platform that will be much cheaper to maintain than a Proline 21.

A CJ2 is a great plane too, however it'll be tough to find in that price range, and it will burn a lot more fuel on your short trips.

Pilots are plentiful on the 525 series, we have 6 in our group, I know of a few in Indiana, and there just seem to be more out there, especially those that are doing this solely as a contractor gig.

I/we manage:

1 Mustang
2 CJs
2 CJ2+
1 CJ2
1 CJ3+
1 Excel
1 TBM

In addition to being a broker, I can help with the initial setup and cover few trips with pilots if needed as STL isn't far away.

-The Citation Jet Exchange

This trip?

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2 ... labelsGeom

Block speed was 274 knots. That's not a 100 knot headwind trip in a Mustang over 966 nm.

Your photo is just passing Atlanta with a groundspeed of 258 knots. Your were 306 knots at the Florida border. before that By the time you got to the Kentucky border, you were over 300 knots again. You did have that big wind in Georgia, but that was not over the entire trip, it was rather localized.

On a truly 100 knot headwind day, you probably don't make it. There will definitely be days you can't go KSRQ to KJVL non stop. Indy is a bit closer, so maybe that percentage is so high as to be good enough.

The north south direction tends not to suffer that too much, but head west and it can be 100 knots for a 2000 miles.

Mike C.

Well, that’s good to know since the OP will be going north south. He never mentioned a 2000 mile trip to the west - probably because that would put him into the Pacific Ocean.

Sounds like a Mustang will work if that’s what he chooses.

Correct about the North / South winds, it was an odd day that I had 100 knots of wind on the nose coming home.

Funny thing about FL at least flying from St. Louis is with the mainly East-West wind, let's say 100knots, you only have 15-40 knots of TW going down and 50-80 knots HW coming home as you have to crab into the wind both directions.

791 nm.

KVNC to KTYQ (Indy Exec) is 799 nm.

Real world example that certain conditions may need a fuel stop.


Agreed.

I have G700 TXi (same thing as G600 TXi). It is a steal that my yearly database subscription is $830. I don't know what a PL21 costs for data and maintenance, but I bet it is at least 10 times.

Mike C.

Per the PC12 not sure I’d want to strap into one that was 2.5M anyways

I downloaded the FAA airmen database.

This lists the type ratings people have.

With a little analysis and spreadsheet formula magic, I counted the type ratings for the legacy Citations (CE-500), CJ series (CE-525), and Mustangs (CE-510).

The totals:

CE-500: 14059
CE-525: 6847
CE-510: 1254

There are more than twice as many CE-500 type rated pilots out there as CJ series, and more than 10 to 1 over Mustang.

I wouldn't dismiss a legacy Citation due to the mistaken idea it will be hard to find pilots.

The count includes both crew and single pilot ratings where applicable.

Mike C.

You end flying mostly in headwinds because you fly slower when you have one, and there is a headwind over more course directions due to crabbing.

This makes the "still air range" a mythical thing. I've almost never had anything close to still air in cruise. And often, like you said, you get a headwind both ways. One should judge planes with headwinds.

Faster airplanes just make headwinds less of an issue. They don't cure it, but they make it more tolerable. This is why I think I can fly my V for about the same fuel as a 501. I go faster, go higher, and both make headwinds less of an issue.

Mike C.

791 nm.

KVNC to KTYQ (Indy Exec) is 799 nm.

Real world example that certain conditions may need a fuel stop.


Agreed.

I have G700 TXi (same thing as G600 TXi). It is a steal that my yearly database subscription is $830. I don't know what a PL21 costs for data and maintenance, but I bet it is at least 10 times.

Mike C.

Now that you mention it, that does sound nice....what plane would that be? Just had to fly commercial back from LA.

A full time jet pilot/manager with the experience required to do the job should demand probably $150k to start if they aren’t typed to begin with, and more if they are and experienced in type. I would guess in the citation market, it’s probably a $180-200k job if a person is coming in typed and current with management experience. Someone willing to do it for $120k is probably someone that I wouldn’t want flying my family and managing my asset.

For the OP: As for the aircraft if it’s not a Citation, I LOVE the PC-12, it’s perfect fit but it’s way out of budget. A King Air -90 with blackhawks is good, the 200 is also good but the full fuel payload issue makes it a pass for me. The MU-2 would be my pick. A nice Marquise can be had for not much over $1MM fully updated, and it’s easily 300 knots on less than $1500 an hour total op cost including overpriced pilot and hangar.

Sounds like you are gonna have a fun search! Whatever you get, you will definitely enjoy it!

A full time jet pilot/manager with the experience required to do the job should demand probably $150k to start if they aren’t typed to begin with, and more if they are and experienced in type. I would guess in the citation market, it’s probably a $180-200k job if a person is coming in typed and current with management experience. Someone willing to do it for $120k is probably someone that I wouldn’t want flying my family and managing my asset.

For the OP: As for the aircraft if it’s not a Citation, I LOVE the PC-12, it’s perfect fit but it’s way out of budget. A King Air -90 with blackhawks is good, the 200 is also good but the full fuel payload issue makes it a pass for me. The MU-2 would be my pick. A nice Marquise can be had for not much over $1MM fully updated, and it’s easily 300 knots on less than $1500 an hour total op cost including overpriced pilot and hangar.

Sounds like you are gonna have a fun search! Whatever you get, you will definitely enjoy it!

Proline annual database subscription is around $5500/year with CJP discount, $6500 without.

1 replacement screen for the Proline is around $35k where a Garmin screen can be replaced for around $3500.

There is another way to staff the planes, none of our 10 managed planes have a pilot on salary. It's monthly management fee + pilot day rate, and they pay for the pilots annual training. There's pros and cons to every model, but this works well for our pilot group and clients.

So, are you saying there’s 14k active Citation 500 pilots currently flying or that there’s been 14k pilots typed?

Cessna has been building CE-500’s since 1971 so yes, there have been over 14k pilot’s typed. Are there 14k pilots, in the US, typed and 12 month training current… not a chance.

Here's the actual numbers of aircraft of each type, this is worldwide.

CE-525: 2529
CE-500: 2126
CE-560XL: 1021
CE-680: 911
CE-510: 472
CE-750: 381
CE-650: 303

There are more CE-525’s than there are CE-500's and Textron is still building CE-525’s so obviously there are going to be more pilots flying 525's, as I mentioned before many CE-525 typed pilots are also CE-500 pilots, but quite a few are not current on the 500, because it was done early their career and they have moved on, some to 525’s and many to CE-560XL / 680.

I can only speak from experience, I don’t have time to google and make spreadsheets, but I hire contract pilots as part of my daily operations, all over the country and it’s typically easier to find 525 guys than it is 500 guys.

It's hard finding pilots, period. What matters most is that if you plan on using contract pilots, find a couple that are typed and current in whatever model you are considering buying. There may be 10 pilots who are CE-500 and two who are 525, who knows, but this is a question a potential operator needs to answer if it that factor weighs into their decision of which airframe to choose.