Would love to speak with anyone operating a Citation Eagle II.

Am trying to decide between an Eagle II, an Eclipse, and a Conquest. Oddly a TBM is not on this list because it's twice as much for an 850.

The mission 60% of the time me and a business partner 600-900 miles.
40% of the time is the whole family 3 kids 2 parents and if there's room in-laws. typically 900-1800 miles. Thats a handful of trips a year. Also a handful of trips to Cabo from Denver (1100 or so).

Thanks for the advice.

What's the payload/range combo that you need nonstop?

4 adults/3 Kids 1800nm is a long way

It's kind of tough to beat a 441 for an all around versatile airplane...

FL320, ISA+12, 285KTAS, 377PPH(56GPH), a 20 degrees short of redline EGT....


Jason

Hi Jon - I suggest you join CJP (Citation Jet Pilots Association) and talk to some of the folks there that have Eagle IIs. If the airplane you are looking at has the Williams conversion it is a hot rod with very good performance and range numbers. You can join with a temporary membership while you find out what you need to know. What I can tell you is that Citations are built like tanks and you will find them to be an excellent workhorse/business tool. I don't know enough about the Conquest or Eclipse to provide an informed opinion, but I would think the Citaiton will cost about the same to own and provide more utility. Being able to climb to FL4XX will allow you to climb over most weather with very good economy.

A friend once told me - buy a turboprop and you will always be looking forward to a jet. Buy a jet and you'll never look back. Hope this helps.

285 knots and it can fly inverted. Now that's versatile!

Mike C.

Huh. I guess I'm somewhat honored to be beaten to the punch by you...

Because you will not be broke operating the turboprop.

Mike C.

CJP is the best resource. A frequent poster is Howard Tobin who flies a Stallion (501 with Williams, but no added fuel that the Eagle II has).


Conquest I or II? Very different airplanes.

IMO, the Conquest II (441) is a far superior airplane to the I (425) and can be operated for about the same per hour and less per mile.


All three will do that.


I think this effectively eliminates the Eclipse. Also, lack of potty makes this trip harder for that group.


The Eagle II won't do 1800 miles non stop reliably. It will do 900 miles in everything but hurricane headwinds.

The 441 will do 1800 miles most of the time if the headwinds are not to bad, say under 60 knots (2200 nm range). You may be limited on payload for that, however, and the 441 will suffer stronger headwinds being limited to FL350.


There is a significant comfort difference between a 441 and an Eagle II. The 441, to get max range, will be flying at FL350 or so, and with the 6 PSI cabin, you are looking at many hours at cabin altitudes of > 10,000 ft. The Eagle II, with an 8 PSI cabin, gives you an 8,000 ft cabin altitude while at FL410. Plus it cuts a couple of hours off the trip time.

My advice would be the Eagle II, and make a fuel/food pit stop on the longer legs. You still beat 441 by at least an hour door to door, 2 hours less flying (1 hour for stop).

If operating costs are an issue, the 441. I think the 441 is the best turboprop out there. If you need short runways, or deal with ice or snow runways, then the 441 wins over the Eagle II.

If you want to make sure the in laws don't come, the Eclipse. If you do by an Eclipse, you will soon be looking for an Eagle II, IMO.

Note that I have not personally operated any of the above, though I have been researching them fairly intensely for my next purchase. My leading contenders are a 441, Eagle II, or a Super SII.

You didn't mention PC-12. What it lacks in speed it gives back in cabin size. I'm not a fan of having only one fan, however.

Mike C.

Mike is spot on with the 441 comments. I have 3 kids (3,5&7), and we frequently take the in laws with us on trips. I have 4100# useful load which gives a 920# full fuel payload. Leave 100# of fuel off and I can take the family and inlaws with 150#'s of bags ~1600NM. I'll deal with the cabin diff loss, extra hour in the sky and take the gains in payload, range and runway performance compared to the CJ.

Picked up an Eagle II and have started the long process of getting to know it. Will be back with experiences etc after I get more time with it.


Anyone have good recommendation for a shop to do general maintenance in Denver area?

Jon it's been awhile since the last post, what kind of numbers are you seeing?

Particularly interested in the time to climb and fuel burn numbers, thanks!

I have had my eagle II for a couple years.

Have had some issues with certain shops that I would not go back to.

I did have a good experience with West Star in Colorado. I would use them again for sure.

I have not used Marks shop in TX Sky Way. I would consider them but do but have any direct experience.

I would like to see what shops others have used that they would recommend.

I think one key thing is having a good local guy for smaller inspections and maintenance. I finally got a good guy and it’s made a huge difference.

Reach out if I can help in any way.

Mike

Shot you a message! Does anyone have the foreflight performance profiles built for the Eagle II they could share?

I test flew an Eagle II in 2020 before I bought my V.

The owner let us go to FL410 but positively insisted we couldn't go to FL430 (despite it being approved for that). That left me feeling like something bad happened to him at FL430 or the plane has some issue that FL430 exposes. So this was a red flag.

At FL410, the plane just wouldn't accelerate. Mach 0.62 was all we could get. This is about 355 KTAS or so, which is pretty lame. Temperatures were not weird, either, like ISA + 4, so not just a bad day. We weren't heavy, either. It climbed well, it just didn't go fast.

After discussing this among my aero engineer folks, the consensus was we were reaching the mach limit of the wing where drag rises sharply. The mod adds a significant "hump" where extra fuel goes and this makes the wing thicker in cross section. Getting thicker absolutely lowers the mach limit. So I was unimpressed with the speed and think that is due to the wing mod.

I also did see a few Eagle II fuel humps that had sloppy workmanship. It was not uncommon to have fuel seepage issues with it. Maybe those are sample defects and some are built tight and right, I don't know.

The low speed and the mod quality turned me off from the Eagle II. In contrast, the Stallion conversion (501 with FJ44 engines, but no fuel mods) is a fine airplane. Fast and lightweight. In a heavy headwind, it has almost the same range as the Eagle II due to being faster. When I modeled the time versus range with various headwinds, the zone in which the Eagle II was faster was pretty narrow. It had to be a flight where the Eagle II didn't need a fuel stop and the Stallion did, and that zone was quite small, like 150 nm ring in 75 knot headwinds, say. If neither had to stop or if both had to stop, the Stallion won easily. If I want an FJ44 501, that would be my choice.

I made an offer on an FJ44 converted SII at one time, but that feel through. In retrospect, that was good and I ended up in a V which I like a lot. The fuel usage is really not much more than the stock 501, especially when operating in a headwind.

Always evaluate airplanes in headwinds because that is where you spend most of your time.

Mike C.

My eagle II has no problem at FL430. Must have been something wrong with that bird.

Although that being said mine had issues holding altitude with the AP at FL430 when I first got it. But found some cable issues that were fixed and that solved the problem.

We have made many trips with full fuel and glad we had the extra capacity. Also with fuoe prices getting high it’s nice to be able to tanker some extra fuel

Mike