09 May 2025, 13:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 11:24 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19978 Post Likes: +25037 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: How does that satisfy the emergency oxygen requirements for pressurized aircraft? It doesn't. The oxygen bottle is not just for pressurization problems, it is for having breathable air in case of cabin smoke, too. A concentrator taking in smoky air might not work so well. What we need are: 1. Comfortable mask 2. Oxygen concentrator that feeds it during cruise so your emergency bottle isn't depleted. 3. Reliable switch over to bottle when cabin depressurizes or pilot selects that manually. 4. FAA approved/legal. I know of no such system. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 11:29 |
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Joined: 07/21/08 Posts: 5707 Post Likes: +7025 Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: The Inogen G5 is a portable concentrator and doesn't require tanks, It make oxygen out of standard air. Let me know I you have any questions.
Jon Abbotts Pure Medical 828-544-1178
I love my G5. It is a life saver for non pressurized aircraft, but I would think it would be totally worthless in an aircraft that lost pressurization anywhere above 20,000' or so. Not to mention how long it would take to turn it on and get oxygen flowing.
_________________ I'm just here for the free snacks
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 11:56 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4713 Post Likes: +5305 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: What we need:
1. Comfortable mask The light bulb just came on. There is a requirement that the available mask must be one-handed quick donning. There is a requirement that we wear a mask solo above FL350. There is no requirement that we have to wear the quick don mask above FL350. We need two masks - one for long term comfort, and one for quick donning. Who makes one? I’ve heard military masks designed for constant wear are much more comfortable than quick dons. Can we use those?
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 13:17 |
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Joined: 03/25/23 Posts: 21 Post Likes: +13 Company: Pure Medical
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Username Protected wrote: The Inogen G5 is a portable concentrator and doesn't require tanks, It make oxygen out of standard air. Let me know I you have any questions.
Can your device be used to fill my oxygen tanks on the ground? Is there a way to pressurize its output?
Sorry I think I posted on the wrong thread. These unit are only used for unpressurized planes. I'm not sure if it would pass for an emergency system in a jet.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 13:41 |
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Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14372 Post Likes: +9493 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: There is no requirement that we have to wear the quick don mask above FL350.
For single pilot and ops above 410 it seems so... (ii) At flight altitudes above flight level 350 unless one pilot at the controls of the airplane is wearing and using an oxygen mask that is secured and sealed and that either supplies oxygen at all times or automatically supplies oxygen whenever the cabin pressure altitude of the airplane exceeds 14,000 feet (MSL), except that the one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask while at or below flight level 410 if there are two pilots at the controls and each pilot has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position within 5 seconds, supplying oxygen and properly secured and sealed.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 13:47 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7291 Post Likes: +4787 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: There is no requirement that we have to wear the quick don mask above FL350.
For single pilot and ops above 410 it seems so... Jim is saying that single pilot must wear a mask above FL350, but the mask worn doesn’t have to be quick don. To fly without actively wearing the mask requires two pilots with access to quick don masks. But if a mask is actively worn it doesn’t have to be quick don.
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 14:32 |
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Joined: 12/19/09 Posts: 342 Post Likes: +290 Company: Premier Bone and Joint Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
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I bought an Aerox mask with a mic when I used to spend hours flying my T-210 around FL200. It is made of a soft compound rubber and is very comfortable. But it is just a standard bag mask with elastic straps. And while I say it is very comfortable, that’s no to say I want to go back to wearing it. I understand why the reg may be among the most ignored for pilots of high flying jets. I guess if you can train yourself not to take a breath after explosive decompression (aside of what’s blown out of your lungs forcibly), your TUC will be whatever it normally is holding your breath instead of just a couple seconds if you inhale. If you’re a trained free diver, you might be well on your way through the emergency descent before your need to get your mask on. 
_________________ Thomas
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 18:27 |
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Joined: 01/07/21 Posts: 404 Post Likes: +391
Aircraft: M20J/R, Sr22, SR20
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Go to you tube and watch some famous Jet pilot Vlogs. Many are flying solo and at or above 40K with no masks on. Seems the reg is regularly ignored.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 01 Dec 2023, 23:06 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 7837 Post Likes: +10204 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Go to you tube and watch some famous Jet pilot Vlogs. Many are flying solo and at or above 40K with no masks on. Seems the reg is regularly ignored. I’ve actually never seen a jet pilot wear a mask, not once. As Mike C. said earlier a sudden decompression event seems exceedingly rare.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 02 Dec 2023, 15:29 |
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Joined: 05/30/17 Posts: 198 Post Likes: +159
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I once heard an FAA presenter at an OSH seminar refer to 91.211 as “one of the most ignored regs in GA.” I’m not surprised about that … you’ll note that almost all of the people posting jet (or high altitude turboprop) content on YouTube don’t show themselves in cruise at 350 and above. And if/when they do, they have a second pilot up front. They know the FAA will bust them if they aren’t wearing the mask… Maybe there are some who post without a mask above 350 … would be interesting to see
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 03 Dec 2023, 11:50 |
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Joined: 12/01/12 Posts: 507 Post Likes: +408 Company: Minnesota Flight
Aircraft: M20M,PA28,PA18,CE500
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Username Protected wrote: I bought an Aerox mask with a mic when I used to spend hours flying my T-210 around FL200. It is made of a soft compound rubber and is very comfortable. But it is just a standard bag mask with elastic straps. And while I say it is very comfortable, that’s no to say I want to go back to wearing it. I understand why the reg may be among the most ignored for pilots of high flying jets. I guess if you can train yourself not to take a breath after explosive decompression (aside of what’s blown out of your lungs forcibly), your TUC will be whatever it normally is holding your breath instead of just a couple seconds if you inhale. If you’re a trained free diver, you might be well on your way through the emergency descent before your need to get your mask on.  The physiology of TUC has nothing to do with holding your breath. At the moment of rapid decompression the amount of oxygen in the air/ lungs is now lower than diffused in your blood. So the oxygen actively leaves your blood quickly. As long as your heart pumps your O2 levels drop. As soon as that low oxygen blood reaches the brain it’s sleepy time. This is very important. I have taught this class and have heard many times I can hold my breath under water for 2 mins. So I’m not going to pass out in seconds. Wrong……
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 03 Dec 2023, 12:16 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4713 Post Likes: +5305 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: The physiology of TUC has nothing to do with holding your breath. At the moment of rapid decompression the amount of oxygen in the air/ lungs is now lower than diffused in your blood. So the oxygen actively leaves your blood quickly. As long as your heart pumps your O2 levels drop. As soon as that low oxygen blood reaches the brain it’s sleepy time.
This is very important. I have taught this class and have heard many times I can hold my breath under water for 2 mins. So I’m not going to pass out in seconds. Wrong…… It would work just fine if you held your breath *before* the decompression event. Y’know, next time you’re in a Michael Bay movie and the hijacker in the cockpit is pointing a gun at the window - hold your breath. Other than that, your airway will be pushed open and your lungs will empty.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 03 Dec 2023, 12:47 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7291 Post Likes: +4787 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: … the regulation that says you need an FAA approved MEL for each individual turbine aircraft is the most ignored. I think very few even know that regulation exists for turbines. Which regulation/FAR is that?
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 03 Dec 2023, 13:52 |
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Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 9632 Post Likes: +4476 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
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Username Protected wrote: … the regulation that says you need an FAA approved MEL for each individual turbine aircraft is the most ignored. I think very few even know that regulation exists for turbines. Which regulation/FAR is that?
That regulation doesn't exist. I don't have one.
I would like to do an MEL to give me more operational flexibility.
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