06 May 2025, 14:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop  Posted: 16 Oct 2023, 09:03 |
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 5163
Post Likes: +5123
Aircraft: C501, R66
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Username Protected wrote: Chip claiming that Mike C made up his phase 5 cost is another unfair attack.
How many Phase 5 inspections have you done with your own money? My bet is absolutely zero. You use other people’s money to pay high prices then try to claim the guys in the real world are making up numbers because they don’t match your inflated experience.
So how much have you paid for any Phase 5 of a legacy citation out of your pocket?
We have at least 4 guys here that have paid for at least one Phase 5 sharing their experience so let’s hear your experience with your own money?
You do realize all of your numbers are from other peoples spending where you advise them to pay more than they should. Just because you tell someone a phase 5 should cost $80k does not make it true.
Edit- I just added a photo from Skyway on the cost of a 550 Phase 5. This is one of the expert shops in the legacy world. So Chip must know more then these guys.
Mike So correct me if I’m wrong but things really go south cost wise at 10K hrs.
No, most all of these airplanes are sailing through 10K with virtually no findings; especially the 501s and 560s. Sometimes on the 550 we see a cracked hole on the stabilizer attachment piece (microscopic crack).
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 16 Oct 2023, 17:51 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2282
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: I have invented a Citation engine vending machine. I bet the credit card reader is broken.
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 16 Oct 2023, 18:11 |
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Joined: 09/11/09
Posts: 5896
Post Likes: +5141
Company: Middle of the country company
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Rebooting.......
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Username Protected wrote: I have invented a Citation engine vending machine. I bet the credit card reader is broken.
They NEVER work for me on any vending machines!!!!
_________________
Three things tell the truth:
Little kids
Drunks
Yoga pants
Actually, four things.....
Cycling kit..
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 16 Oct 2023, 19:41 |
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Joined: 11/15/17
Posts: 1053
Post Likes: +546
Company: Cessna (retired)
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Username Protected wrote: I have invented a Citation engine vending machine. How many quarters does it take and how many flavors of engines does it have?
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 16 Oct 2023, 19:48 |
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Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 3350
Post Likes: +4810
Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: I have invented a Citation engine vending machine. It won't even fit in my plane, but for some reason I really want one of those. 
_________________
Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 00:18 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19946
Post Likes: +25018
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: So correct me if I’m wrong but things really go south cost wise at 10K hrs. I doubt it. My plane just crossed that line on Friday. Now sitting at 10,004 hours. I am through the 10,000 hours inspections, four of them. Combined cost maybe $8K, so net about 80 cents per flight hour so far. I'd say that is manageable. The four inspections now have recurring times that are 10,000, 4000, 3000, and 1200 hours now they we are past 10,000 hours. I might have to do the 1200 hour one again, but the others won't occur in my ownership. Nothing else in the inspection schedule seems to change at 10,000 hours. Nothing in the plane feels like it has a major wear out issue that starts to manifest itself at 10,000 hours. That is, it doesn't seem like things will start to break more frequently now than before. So I don't think there is any significant increase in maintenance costs once passing 10,000 hours. I'm going to find out. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 02:04 |
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Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 574
Post Likes: +457
Aircraft: D55, C172
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Username Protected wrote: So correct me if I’m wrong but things really go south cost wise at 10K hrs. I doubt it. My plane just crossed that line on Friday. Now sitting at 10,004 hours. I am through the 10,000 hours inspections, four of them. Combined cost maybe $8K, so net about 80 cents per flight hour so far. I'd say that is manageable. The four inspections now have recurring times that are 10,000, 4000, 3000, and 1200 hours now they we are past 10,000 hours. I might have to do the 1200 hour one again, but the others won't occur in my ownership. Nothing else in the inspection schedule seems to change at 10,000 hours. Nothing in the plane feels like it has a major wear out issue that starts to manifest itself at 10,000 hours. That is, it doesn't seem like things will start to break more frequently now than before. So I don't think there is any significant increase in maintenance costs once passing 10,000 hours. I'm going to find out. Mike C.
Yeah. I must not know how to read these phases/ Just referring to Mikes Skyway chart on the 500/501 they list a phase (10K hr) 51 at $14.5K, and phases15, 16 and 17 total about $18.5K. I’m sure there’s cheaper avenues but for a novice this might seem like the “pencil in” annual.?
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 07:54 |
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Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 790
Post Likes: +452
Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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Username Protected wrote: My plane just crossed that line on Friday. Now sitting at 10,004 hours.
I am through the 10,000 hours inspections, four of them. Combined cost maybe $8K, so net about 80 cents per flight hour so far. I'd say that is manageable.
The four inspections now have recurring times that are 10,000, 4000, 3000, and 1200 hours now they we are past 10,000 hours. I might have to do the 1200 hour one again, but the others won't occur in my ownership.
Mike C. So to try and put this more clearly: Your engines have 10,000 hours TT and not 40,000TT? And the 4 "10,000 hour" inspections are really just the hour based inspections and they happen at 1200, 3000, 4000 and then 10,000 again? Or do they increase in frequency as the plane flies more, 10,000 is done, then your next inspection is 4,000 then 3,000 then 1,200? Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 08:56 |
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Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 574
Post Likes: +457
Aircraft: D55, C172
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Username Protected wrote: My plane just crossed that line on Friday. Now sitting at 10,004 hours.
I am through the 10,000 hours inspections, four of them. Combined cost maybe $8K, so net about 80 cents per flight hour so far. I'd say that is manageable.
The four inspections now have recurring times that are 10,000, 4000, 3000, and 1200 hours now they we are past 10,000 hours. I might have to do the 1200 hour one again, but the others won't occur in my ownership.
Mike C. So to try and put this more clearly: Your engines have 10,000 hours TT and not 40,000TT? And the 4 "10,000 hour" inspections are really just the hour based inspections and they happen at 1200, 3000, 4000 and then 10,000 again? Or do they increase in frequency as the plane flies more, 10,000 is done, then your next inspection is 4,000 then 3,000 then 1,200? Chip-
Im talking about airplane inspections; engines are a different ball of wax. I think?
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 10:06 |
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Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 736
Post Likes: +359
Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
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Username Protected wrote: My plane just crossed that line on Friday. Now sitting at 10,004 hours.
I am through the 10,000 hours inspections, four of them. Combined cost maybe $8K, so net about 80 cents per flight hour so far. I'd say that is manageable.
The four inspections now have recurring times that are 10,000, 4000, 3000, and 1200 hours now they we are past 10,000 hours. I might have to do the 1200 hour one again, but the others won't occur in my ownership.
Mike C. So to try and put this more clearly: Your engines have 10,000 hours TT and not 40,000TT? And the 4 "10,000 hour" inspections are really just the hour based inspections and they happen at 1200, 3000, 4000 and then 10,000 again? Or do they increase in frequency as the plane flies more, 10,000 is done, then your next inspection is 4,000 then 3,000 then 1,200? Chip-
At 10,000 hours, the air frame has four inspections due. I believe they are phase 15, 16, 17 and 51. Once those are done, three of the phase inspections are again due after additional 1200, 3000, and 4000 hours. (11200, 13000 and 14000TT)
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 11:38 |
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Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 790
Post Likes: +452
Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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Thank you, sorry I meant airframe not engine there. I think I had Tarver's photo still stuck in my head. That timeline makes more sense, 1200, 3000, 4000, 10,000.
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Legacy Citation vs Turboprop Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 13:41 |
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Joined: 04/02/16
Posts: 574
Post Likes: +457
Aircraft: D55, C172
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Username Protected wrote: At 10,000 hours, the air frame has four inspections due. I believe they are phase 15, 16, 17 and 51. Once those are done, three of the phase inspections are again due after additional 1200, 3000, and 4000 hours. (11200, 13000 and 14000TT) And what would expect to pay for the 10K checks? Skyway is one example. Mike C says he paid substantially less….
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