Brian

I will explain it. I have been dealing with ultra wealthy for 30 years. Everyone is insecure at some level. Wealthy are no different and in some cases much more than the average person. They hire guys like Chip because they are told if they don’t bad things will happen. There is a huge market is taking advantage of the wealthy.

Guys like Chip fear monger to make people think they need them. That’s what’s he is doing on these threads. Trying to create fear so he somehow he has value. It’s despicable. Then if nothing bad happens he says see I saved your ass. LOL.

He tried to back pedal but most can see right thru his crap.


Mike

I have a song stuck in my head…

“I see your true colors shining through.”

I will say that you are correct, insecurity makes people do and say things they normally wouldn’t.

Hey Michael, I am not sure if this is what you meant exactly, but it sounds like you are painting Chip as a fraud or some type of Jet-A huckster.

I’m eager to see his number because this stuff is interesting to me and I have dreams of TP ownership one day.

Disagreeing with his assertions and questioning his thread topics is one thing, but accusing him of fear mongering and claiming his business offers no value unless he’s fabricating it seems pretty extreme, unless you really believe that.

I think you can acknowledge he’s not a fraud. He has knowledge and experience (several here disagree on the opinions themselves, yes) and he delivers his service accordingly. That doesn’t sound like a fraud to me.

Finders/buyers services are useful in the marketplace. I assume you would agree with that statement. Let’s preserve the common ground in the dialog.

I was just explaining how many high end markets work.

Fact is Chip has come on here and made accusations about Tarver’s business. Which he obviously knows nothing about. Also has said Mike C is hiding and not disclosing details of his ownership. Again flat out false.

You get what you give. He is getting back what he dished out.

I am moving on. I think many can see Chips true colors. I make absolutely zero of my income from this market so I really not worried about what people think of me. I am here to learn and enjoy the stories from guys actually doing things.

I am much happier being friends and knowing guys like Tarver and Mike C than Chip
That’s for sure.

Mike

Some of you guys (and gals) crack me up.

I know both Chip and Mike. I bought an MU2 from Mike, GREAT experience. The family I fly for is using Chip to find an off market CE560, GREAT experience. So, I consider both of them “friends”. Guess that makes me bipolar?

Some of you keyboard jockeys need to get a grip. Focus on what matters…push yourself away from the keyboard so you can get your perspective back.

My own perspective was brought back into clear focus this week as I lost 2 amazing friends.

I have the honor today of saying goodbye to my 95 year old mentor Gene, who taught me to fly 42 years ago and has been like a second father to me ever since. He flew in Korea and Vietnam and lived an amazing life for 95 years. Sadly, I’m also saying goodbye to Mark, an amazing young man that I had the privilege to mentor for 15 years. He passed unexpectedly at 49, leaving a wife and 4 kids behind.

I'm just waiting on these numbers, I ran my own number crunching when looking for the next step up

the KA made the most sense for me, the biggest penalty was the average trip length of 250-275nm, that didn't favor any citation or phenom options- and I ran some pretty optimistic scenarios, and some fairly pessimistic ones, there was just really nothing pointing at the jet

After a few years of operating the KA, I"m now seeing how impactful it can be if you are forced to purchase fuel with unfavorable pricing, for logistics, and doubling the fuel order would be even more painful, no matter how much quicker the trip was

ATC has also played a major role in my flight profiles, this was hard to forecast/predict- sometimes I am held down to 6000ft when departing the bravo, for up to 20mins, which is nearly half the entire trip......it is quite frustrating and I don't see citations being subjected to that

Would be interesting to accidentally file a flight plan with citation as the aircraft typeand see how ATC handled it differently

Brian, I can guarantee you unless you are departing from KATL, if you are leaving from LZU, PDK, RYY, or FTY going south, you get the shaft at 6,000 feet until you are 30 south of the Bravo. On the run to Destin, even in the Citations, we never file for higher than 21k.

It is very frustrating…

Nobody wants to buy a 2 pilots aircraft outside of the US, a 560 is big, old and burns a ton of fuel.




[/quote]

I think Mike C has demonstrated and met your criteria with the 560. I get your point with the 501. But then for some of us, that’s a starting point. And probably a very safe place to start.

BTW. Great presentation Tarv.[/quote]

Chip claiming that Mike C made up his phase 5 cost is another unfair attack.

How many Phase 5 inspections have you done with your own money? My bet is absolutely zero. You use other people’s money to pay high prices then try to claim the guys in the real world are making up numbers because they don’t match your inflated experience.

So how much have you paid for any Phase 5 of a legacy citation out of your pocket?

We have at least 4 guys here that have paid for at least one Phase 5 sharing their experience so let’s hear your experience with your own money?

You do realize all of your numbers are from other peoples spending where you advise them to pay more than they should. Just because you tell someone a phase 5 should cost $80k does not make it true.

Edit- I just added a photo from Skyway on the cost of a 550 Phase 5. This is one of the expert shops in the legacy world. So Chip must know more then these guys.

Mike

For those interested here is a complete price list from
One of the top shops.

Mike

https://skyway-mro.com/wp-content/uploa ... 23_WEB.pdf

Kirk is right, life is too short for the negativity, I apologize for my part in it, I appreciate Mike P. sticking up for Mike Tarver, I haven’t said anything on here that I wouldn’t say to Mike T. on the phone, but I appreciate how the nuance is lost in the written word and then when the back and forth starts things can really fall out of context.

I’m not at all against Mike Tarver, I’ve done what he’s doing and can tell you it is a labor of love, you have to love the machines and put the work into them, he clearly does that. I also see some things differently after a lengthy career of doing it, and I’ve been through some ups and downs that he hasn’t seen yet.

I’m not cynical and I’m not negative, but I’ll dang sure point out the potential downsides with almost anything. It’s part of what I do, as Kirk will tell you, I approach every potential aircraft with a critical eye and it boils down to a list of pros and cons.

I think the accusations of fear mongering are ludicrous, but Mike P. didn’t come up with that, he’s just echoing Mike C.’s narrative. I can only assume Mike came up with it because he can’t figure out why anyone would hire a company to buy an airplane for him. If you combine that we me challenging him and pointing out potential pitfalls, he views me as a fearmongerer and there’s the hammer to wield.

Our clients don’t hire us because they are insecure or afraid, most of them aren’t “wealthy” or entitled, in fact, in general they are just hard working business owners and a few high net worth families. They hire us for two reasons, our ability to find airplanes and the fact that we have a proven process we use to get the airplane bought, inspected and closed.

My concern isn’t if someone hires us, it’s that they don’t have enough choices, I would prefer that every potential client be able to talk to three or four acquisition companies and then choose the best fit. We can inly do so much and there’s more models that we don’t do than do. I wish there were acquisition agents that I could refer those buyers to and I do refer them to brokers who do acquisitions, but as I have said many times, I believe there is an undeniable conflict of interest there.

I’m encouraged, because of these threads, a couple of guys have reached out to me considering doing acquisitions, I hope they’ll do it and I hope if they do they’ll resist the temptation to sell airplanes and stay committed to doing acquisitions only.

You just can’t let go can you.

Anyone who has any depth of knowledge in Citations knows what phase inspections cost. I’m not lame enough to fall for the “not my money” bullcrap. I’ve managed more phase inspections than I can count, at shops with only a couple of mechanics all the way up to Textron Wichita and just about everything in between.

The flat rate for a phase V inspection on a V is at least $30k, and that’s without discrepancies. If you get out the door for that, either the airplane is perfect or the inspection wasn’t done properly.

You guys can say I don’t know what I’m talking about, but everyone who reads this that does know, listens to you and just shakes their head.

Please. Saying Chip is a fraud? Jetavia is a fraud? Not hardly. These people do a great service for some people. Just maybe not me, or Michael, or other aviation nuts. You just don’t like Chips rhetoric I suspect. Please let’s preserve the common ground.

Chip

Correct I can’t let it go. Ironically neither can you.

Answer the question. How many Phase 5 inspections on a Legacy Citations have you paid for out of your own pocket?

And now you are saying if someone does a Phase 5 for $30k they didn’t do it right. Interesting. I just did a Phase 1-4 and there was very little found. Should I call the mechanic a liar? Maybe I should have you talk to them and explain that the more they charge the better the work is. So they might as well charge double. How dare they do fair work.

And BTW I didn’t know Mike C said you fear monger. I came up with that on my own. LOL.

Mike

Here’s what you do big boy, you call the guys at Skyway and ask them what a phase 5 cost. Then you call Rusty at East Texas Turbines, then call Bryson over at TAS and Scott at Stevens.

Let us know what they say.

I know the answer because I just made those calls this week.

Four people against hundreds…

And yes, I will unequivocally say that any phase 5 inspection done at a shop with a flat rate of $30k is going to be a lot more than that if the inspection is done properly. There are shops out there that will pencil whip the heck out of an inspection, but that doesn’t count. If you guys are getting your phase 5’s done at Tarver’s shop for $30k then more power to you, I’m shocked that he doesn’t have 50 airplanes on his ramp waiting to get in.