One of my mentors in aviation once told me, every single aircraft you transact is a flying lawsuit.

I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, he was in it for 20 before me.

Thankful I have never been sued, unfortunately he has.

As many of my threads I start are, this one was born out of thread drift on another thread.

The statement was made on the Meridian thread that a Legacy Citation could be operated for less than a Meridian… well, that was the exact wrong aircraft to pick on for op cost!

The Piper PA-46 turbine has long been known as the most economical turbine aircraft you can operate. They are stupid simple and inexpensive to work on, its just a piston airplane with a Pratt on it.

Then the narrative became that I am anti-Legacy Citation, anybody that knows me knows that that is laughable! The first jet that Jet Acquisitions ever acquired was a Citation V! I’d have to look, but we’ve probably done more V/Ultras than any other model of jet. It’s at least tied with Mustangs.

Here’s what I can do, I can demonstrate that a Legacy Citation is as economical to own and operate as any turboprop, save the JetProp/ Meridian and maybe the Piaggio or Eclipse. What’s more is that I can do this without stacking the deck, I’m talking similar acquisition cost and identical maintenance standards. None of this comparing a $600k jet with a $2.6M turboprop or claiming a Phase 5 on a Citation V only cost $30k… real numbers. Apples and apples. The only qualifications that I will add are that we are excluding life limited engine components and extraordinary unexpected expenses due to AD’s, corrosion, etc. The unknowns are always unknown and too hard to quantify.

Ok, my King Air, TBM and Pilatus guys… come at me. Prove me wrong!

One of my mentors in aviation once told me, every single aircraft you transact is a flying lawsuit.

I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, he was in it for 20 before me.

Thankful I have never been sued, unfortunately he has.

As many of my threads I start are, this one was born out of thread drift on another thread.

The statement was made on the Meridian thread that a Legacy Citation could be operated for less than a Meridian… well, that was the exact wrong aircraft to pick on for op cost!

The Piper PA-46 turbine has long been known as the most economical turbine aircraft you can operate. They are stupid simple and inexpensive to work on, its just a piston airplane with a Pratt on it.

Then the narrative became that I am anti-Legacy Citation, anybody that knows me knows that that is laughable! The first jet that Jet Acquisitions ever acquired was a Citation V! I’d have to look, but we’ve probably done more V/Ultras than any other model of jet. It’s at least tied with Mustangs.

Here’s what I can do, I can demonstrate that a Legacy Citation is as economical to own and operate as any turboprop, save the JetProp/ Meridian and maybe the Piaggio or Eclipse. What’s more is that I can do this without stacking the deck, I’m talking similar acquisition cost and identical maintenance standards. None of this comparing a $600k jet with a $2.6M turboprop or claiming a Phase 5 on a Citation V only cost $30k… real numbers. Apples and apples. The only qualifications that I will add are that we are excluding life limited engine components and extraordinary unexpected expenses due to AD’s, corrosion, etc. The unknowns are always unknown and too hard to quantify.

Ok, my King Air, TBM and Pilatus guys… come at me. Prove me wrong!

One of my mentors in aviation once told me, every single aircraft you transact is a flying lawsuit.

I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, he was in it for 20 before me.

Thankful I have never been sued, unfortunately he has.

In fact the more you say the more I wonder why anyone would do business with you.

One of my mentors in aviation once told me, every single aircraft you transact is a flying lawsuit.

I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, he was in it for 20 before me.

Thankful I have never been sued, unfortunately he has.

This is not a good place for you to promote your business. In fact the more you say the more I wonder why anyone would do business with you.

I'd still like to understand who needs a broker's help buying a brand new airplane from the factory, but I also recently watched someone take a bag of ice and proceed to rinse the ice off under water before "using" it

So maybe I'm off base

500/501/550/560 Facts based on having owned 80+ of these and written every single check with my own hand, parted out 15+, rebuilt 50+ engines and done countless Phase 1-5s.

Engines:
-A midtime used 1A or -4 with a fresh hot is 200-250K to buy now, usually exchange
-A midtime used -5A is $350K exchange
-A freshly hotted timed out on condition motor is $150-175K with good blades
-No one is overhauling anymore but it's $300-450k to overhaul at an ITI/Hale sort of shop.
-Impeller is $60K to replace
-A disk of on condition blades is $75-100K
-An overhauled HT stator is $20-30K outright
-You can regrow short blades for $497 each (71 blades)
-It's 20K to remove and redisk a high turbine disk.
-It's about $2000 a piece to weld a small exit duct, large exit duct and combustion liner
-It's 10-17K to weld a cracked up high turbine stator
-A clean hot section is about $25K now, a really dirty one needing blades could be $150K. Absolutely no difference in quality between a Standard Aero and a quality independent shop, just the price.
-Ignitor box, $2500-5000
-A new to you front fan is $10K

Airframe:
-Replacing a front or side windshield costs $7500 for the part and about 25-35 hrs each
-Replacing a back window is $900 and takes about 5 hours each after interior removal
-An air cycle machine costs about 12K used and is 15-17 to overhaul
-Air cycle machine turbo is about 5K and is usually the failure
-Freon system pretty easy to repair, usually a motor or compressor running 2-5K
-Pressurization controller 5K
-Engine gauge, $2,500
-Never see corrosion issues
-Actuators costs about 2-5K
-A Phase 1-4 takes two men about a week to do properly
-A Phase 5 takes two men about 10 days to do properly
-Paint is about 45K
-An interior is 60-80K
-A Phase 49 is about $1000
-oxygen hydro $100
-Nitrogen hydro $175
-Fire bottles with new squibs about $800
-New nitrogen bottle, $7500
-New oxygen bottle, $2500
-Brakes, $1750 a side
-Tire, $1300 each for mains, $900 for nose
-Wheel, 5-7.5K
-Antiskid sensor, $2500
-Fix antilock brake motor, $5K
-replace TR actuator or speed brake actuator, $2,500
-Anti-ice valve, $2,500
-Deice boot, $7500 installed for a wing and $3-4K for a tail boot.
-Deice boot ejector valve, $1000

Avionics
-Replace RVSM computer, usually $500 unless you have a Shadin system then it's $5K
-HSI/ADI, $2,500
-Inverter $800
-ASI, VSI, etc. $1000
-An RVSM check is about $1,500
-Autopilot rarely breaks, a computer is 2-5K, a servo is 2K
-Install two 750s, $60Kish depending on the shop
-Install full Garmin panel, Under $300K
-Lighting inverter, $500
-Autopilot preselector, $2,500
-Standby gyro, $1,500
-Generator control unit, $2,500
-Starter gen, overhauled, $1800
-Pressurization solonoid valve, $5,500
-Ailerons, flaps, and airframe parts are cheap
-10K hour inspection, $15K, much much cheaper on the 560.
-Broken Step, $5K

Operating/Owner Costs

-Fuel 150 GPH for a 501, 165 for a 550, 190 for a 560, BLOCK
-120, 140, 180 respectively max power cruise altitude
-90, 110, NO idea for the 560 long range cruise
-Maintenance, me, owning a shop and having near free parts, under 10K a year
-You, basic shop assuming $100/hour, $25K a year
-You, Gold plated sort of shop, $60K a year
-Insurance, 10-30K a year depending on YOU and the plane

---------------------
Narrative: I think you're going to find that these airplanes are extremely well made and rarely break. They are built like little airliners. They like to be flown and do not like to sit. The parts cost I outlined are for serviceable used parts. I haven't found the parts to cost more than any other brand of aircraft and I find they consume less parts on average than a pressurized twin recap. They aren't finicky machines.

Most common squawks I see AND don't see on these:

1) anti-ice idiot light system is complicated. Everything heats but the lights don't extinguish. The solenoid valves can fail if not flown regularly.
2) Rarely see pressurization issues
3) Freon systems are usually neglected on ALL airplanes, including these, usually an expansion valve, leak or receiver dryer
4) Rarely see autopilot issues, it's usually the preselector
5) Missing digits on engine gauges, most live with it
6) Rarely see boot issues, almost never
7) Battery lasts 3-4 years and then fails a cap check, $3,500
8) Oxygen systems can leak, unplug your masks and leave on crew when shutdown
9) Missing placards, $500 for the kit
10) Virtually never see any corrosion of a serious nature
11) Frayed accessory control cable, $1000, rare but I see it.
12) lots of relays and can lose one occasionally; under $1K to replace usually
13) Stator valve (engine), $2,500

--------------------------------

Whatever it costs, it's totally worth it. They are smooth, fast, quiet, safe and enjoyable. If the possibility of any of these numbers scares you then it's not for you. When I see an airplane with a bunch of squawks, it usually means the owner didn't care and ran it into the ground. Now, I am seeing a lot of time and love going back into these machines.

Dip your toes in the water, it's nice.

500/501/550/560 Facts based on having owned 80+ of these and written every single check with my own hand, parted out 15+, rebuilt 50+ engines and done countless Phase 1-5s.

Engines:
-A midtime used 1A or -4 with a fresh hot is 200-250K to buy now, usually exchange
-A midtime used -5A is $350K exchange
-A freshly hotted timed out on condition motor is $150-175K with good blades
-No one is overhauling anymore but it's $300-450k to overhaul at an ITI/Hale sort of shop.
-Impeller is $60K to replace
-A disk of on condition blades is $75-100K
-An overhauled HT stator is $20-30K outright
-You can regrow short blades for $497 each (71 blades)
-It's 20K to remove and redisk a high turbine disk.
-It's about $2000 a piece to weld a small exit duct, large exit duct and combustion liner
-It's 10-17K to weld a cracked up high turbine stator
-A clean hot section is about $25K now, a really dirty one needing blades could be $150K. Absolutely no difference in quality between a Standard Aero and a quality independent shop, just the price.
-Ignitor box, $2500-5000
-A new to you front fan is $10K

Airframe:
-Replacing a front or side windshield costs $7500 for the part and about 25-35 hrs each
-Replacing a back window is $900 and takes about 5 hours each after interior removal
-An air cycle machine costs about 12K used and is 15-17 to overhaul
-Air cycle machine turbo is about 5K and is usually the failure
-Freon system pretty easy to repair, usually a motor or compressor running 2-5K
-Pressurization controller 5K
-Engine gauge, $2,500
-Never see corrosion issues
-Actuators costs about 2-5K
-A Phase 1-4 takes two men about a week to do properly
-A Phase 5 takes two men about 10 days to do properly
-Paint is about 45K
-An interior is 60-80K
-A Phase 49 is about $1000
-oxygen hydro $100
-Nitrogen hydro $175
-Fire bottles with new squibs about $800
-New nitrogen bottle, $7500
-New oxygen bottle, $2500
-Brakes, $1750 a side
-Tire, $1300 each for mains, $900 for nose
-Wheel, 5-7.5K
-Antiskid sensor, $2500
-Fix antilock brake motor, $5K
-replace TR actuator or speed brake actuator, $2,500
-Anti-ice valve, $2,500
-Deice boot, $7500 installed for a wing and $3-4K for a tail boot.
-Deice boot ejector valve, $1000

Avionics
-Replace RVSM computer, usually $500 unless you have a Shadin system then it's $5K
-HSI/ADI, $2,500
-Inverter $800
-ASI, VSI, etc. $1000
-An RVSM check is about $1,500
-Autopilot rarely breaks, a computer is 2-5K, a servo is 2K
-Install two 750s, $60Kish depending on the shop
-Install full Garmin panel, Under $300K
-Lighting inverter, $500
-Autopilot preselector, $2,500
-Standby gyro, $1,500
-Generator control unit, $2,500
-Starter gen, overhauled, $1800
-Pressurization solonoid valve, $5,500
-Ailerons, flaps, and airframe parts are cheap
-10K hour inspection, $15K, much much cheaper on the 560.
-Broken Step, $5K

Operating/Owner Costs

-Fuel 150 GPH for a 501, 165 for a 550, 190 for a 560, BLOCK
-120, 140, 180 respectively max power cruise altitude
-90, 110, NO idea for the 560 long range cruise
-Maintenance, me, owning a shop and having near free parts, under 10K a year
-You, basic shop assuming $100/hour, $25K a year
-You, Gold plated sort of shop, $60K a year
-Insurance, 10-30K a year depending on YOU and the plane

---------------------
Narrative: I think you're going to find that these airplanes are extremely well made and rarely break. They are built like little airliners. They like to be flown and do not like to sit. The parts cost I outlined are for serviceable used parts. I haven't found the parts to cost more than any other brand of aircraft and I find they consume less parts on average than a pressurized twin recap. They aren't finicky machines.

Most common squawks I see AND don't see on these:

1) anti-ice idiot light system is complicated. Everything heats but the lights don't extinguish. The solenoid valves can fail if not flown regularly.
2) Rarely see pressurization issues
3) Freon systems are usually neglected on ALL airplanes, including these, usually an expansion valve, leak or receiver dryer
4) Rarely see autopilot issues, it's usually the preselector
5) Missing digits on engine gauges, most live with it
6) Rarely see boot issues, almost never
7) Battery lasts 3-4 years and then fails a cap check, $3,500
8) Oxygen systems can leak, unplug your masks and leave on crew when shutdown
9) Missing placards, $500 for the kit
10) Virtually never see any corrosion of a serious nature
11) Frayed accessory control cable, $1000, rare but I see it.
12) lots of relays and can lose one occasionally; under $1K to replace usually
13) Stator valve (engine), $2,500

--------------------------------

Whatever it costs, it's totally worth it. They are smooth, fast, quiet, safe and enjoyable. If the possibility of any of these numbers scares you then it's not for you. When I see an airplane with a bunch of squawks, it usually means the owner didn't care and ran it into the ground. Now, I am seeing a lot of time and love going back into these machines.

Dip your toes in the water, it's nice.

So your implication is that there’s this whole group of people, smart and successful enough to buy a brand new private jet for millions of dollars, using someone like me to help them, and they’re stupid?