Hello BT Gang.

I am thinking about adding another airplane to my hangar! I want something that I can cruise low and slow with, maybe open up the windows over the beach or do some backcountry flying and camping!

I've been window shopping the C180 ... pros / cons ?

What else would you consider ?

Piper Cub ?
Champ ?
Huskey ?

A Citabria.... Faster than a Cub or a Champ; much cheaper than a Husky.

I always liked the Super Decathalon. Can do Acro and travel a bit.

Agreed.

I have a late model 7GCBC with big tires and it's a great airplane. Aerobatic capable (sorta) and good enough for most backcountry strips.

Robert

My vote is for a Super Cub with a belly pod. If you want to camp, you need somewhere to put all that gear. The belly pod gets the weight down low and doesn't throw your cg way aft. Plus, it holds quit a bit (150bls). We love ours.

Curious what the mission is for the tailwheel aircraft. Also how much experience do you have flying them ? Insurance is an issue for a newbie Skywagon pilot. You will pay a huge premium until you have acquired some accident free TW time. Also what is your budget ?

Personally - I feel an early model 180 flies amazing - of course this is what I have been flying for nearly 17 years. Decent cross country airplanes and after you get used to flying tailwheel airplane relatively easy. They perform amazing for backcountry operations and can go almost everywhere the supercubs go. The early model 180s are limited by load and range to a certain degree. Late model 185s have huge loads but fly more like trucks. It is all relative because you can get used to anything. Entry level 180s are still catching 150K for good straight airplanes and late model 185s with IO550s/fresh paint and glass panels can get near 500K. Also not a cheap plane to fly/maintain. Likely similar to the operating costs of a Bonanza.

You could go 120/140 route which would be super cheap. Also Champs and Luscombes would fall into this category. They are mostly under powered but great planes to get your tailwheel chops. They fly light and are super fun but are not meant for much more than local trips. C170s are nice but are under powered with the standard O300 engine and the ones that have 360s are super expensive. The advantage of a cheap tailwheel airplane - is you can just insure for liability and save a lot of money.

I think going with a Citabria or Decathlon is not a bad idea. The later model 8KCABs are spendy now. They are tandem seating which can be positive of negative. I owned an 8KCAB for 3 years prior to the 180. They fly really nice and can do all of the inside aerobatic maneuvers with ease. I bought the Super Decathlon for the purpose of doing aerobatics. Had the stomach for it as a young man but made me hurl as a middle aged pilot. That was 18 years ago. Bought the 180 and haven't looked back.

Old pacers and Stinsons are worthy of looking at if you're on a budget. They are some great deals on them but they are fabric airplanes which can be expensive if the fabric is not in shape. Plus they need a hangar. They are worthy backcountry airplanes if this is your intended mission.

If I owned a 35 I think I would look for a Kitfox 7 or a Ran S21 with a Rotax 915T engine. Those airplanes have side by side seating (which I prefer) and are great Backcountry airplanes.

As for fun flying. You'll love having a tailwheel airplane. It will make you a better stick and rudder pilot. They are just fun to fly and are aesthetically pleasing to the eye. I was faced with the decision of Bonanza or Skywagon 18 years ago. For me it was Tailwheel or go home. Having two airplanes with one being a tailwheel would be ideal.

Do you care about side by side vs tandem seating? Or yoke vs stick?

The pacer is cheap and fun!

-J

It also really helps prepare you for multiengine flying, too, if that's something you might care about at some point.

My first 480 hours are in a 180 HP CS prop C170B. Wonderful airplane, like a lightweight C180 in performance, but 170s are fantastically expensive to buy these days.

Mike C.

Having recently added a Luscombe 8C/E to my fleet I clearly have a bias, and some observations to share.

The airplane is a good, solid airplane that's without the mechanical degradation challenges of rag-and-tube or (heaven forbid) wood airplanes. It has some decades-old mechanical design challenges which necessitate regular inspections (especially rudder cables). A decent Luscombe will give you (solo) capacity to carry just about all the weight you can squeeze into the baggage area - it's not a big baggage area so one needs to be thoughtful in buying camping gear and the like.

On the plus side, the Luscombe provides you with better handling qualities than many of its contemporaries and a bit of a performance advantage on a mph-per-hp basis. It doesn't land short and it doesn't take off short. Its landing gear structure is not intended for off-airport operations. It is NOT a bush plane - if you fly it like one you'll quickly learn how to replace tailwheel mounting structure and the structural box in which the main gear resides.

If you own a Luscombe you will love hanging your elbow out the window on a hot day, and you'll have a grin on just about every flight. It's an honest flying airplane that does what it's told to do. Most of the old wives tales about it being nasty on the ground come from folks who have never flown one (seems this is common in the histories of many aircraft types).

Oh, did I mention that everywhere my Luscombe goes it draws attention? Yeah, 83 year old airplanes sometimes do that...

Very fond memories of my old Piper Super Cub. Very simple and a delight to fly. If you don't mind a block speed of 80KTAS it is even a reasonable VFR cross country aircraft. I flew mine to Spain from the UK, and also over to Ireland. It will land and take off in relatively short, unimproved farm strips. Modern fabric means that as long as they are hangared, maintenance is straightforward.

In an ideal world you live near a farm strip and there is a hangar to keep your Super Cub in.

It depends on what you want to do

If you want to go low and slow with the windows/door off, there is nothing that is nicer to fly than a champ or cub, preferably as light as possible meaning a 4-cyl continental and no electric system.

If you want to haul camping equipment a longer distance then you need something heavier. Rather than butchering a champ (into a citabria) I would suggest a trying out a Cessna 170

A very wide range of choices. The thought process should begin with a price range.

Jg

Agreed, and further defining your mission. There are too many options for low and slow plus occasional backcountry and camping.

How many people, yoke/stick, side-by-side or tandem, range, how big is your hangar, certified/experimental, aerobatic/not... etc?

With a Bonanza in the hangar you already have a good cross country plane with useful load to go camping. Seems like a Cub, Champ, Citabria, Decathlon, Stinson, Shortwing Piper, or any of the Cessna tailwheels would be in play.

Josh gave you the answers. And I happen to have a 185 for sale.

If you have any interest in owner maintenance, E-AB is a huge plus. An Experimental Super Cub would be lovely, but you have to be a drug lord to afford one. Get the right tailwheel experimental — say, an RV-7, -9, or -14 — and you might find it takes over the Bonanza’s mission. But, $$$.

If what you want is romantic sunsets, J-3, Champ, Kitfox, RANS, etc are more alike than they are different (except cruise speed) and all will scratch that itch. Buy whatever is close to you and be aware that you’ll likely sell it in a couple of years. There aren’t that many pretty sunsets on unplanned evenings, and sunset flights aren’t as fun as they ought to be. This isn’t sailing.

And back to the top, a 185 will do the Bonanza’s mission minus 30 knots of cruise but plus 300 or 400# of useful load.

The answer to the question “which taildragger?” is two more questions: “what do you want to do with it?” and “how much do you want to spend?”

Metal wing Citabria 7GCBC (been there done that w wood, just buy the metal one you’ll get it back in resale)

Is very favorable comparison to the cub experience. Ours got bent but would buy another in a heartbeat.