BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:38

Honda fractional company Jet It has laid off all employees and I have heard that they have told the owners that they need to decide what to do with the aircraft.The GAMA data for the first quarter shows that Honda delivered 1 HA420.What is going on at Honda?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:48

The jet sucks…..it’s unmanageable on the ground and is unforgiving in crosswinds.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:52

I think it’s a nice jet, but does have some ground handling issues. And it’s pricey I wouldn’t mind having one, really nice inside. But for the same money, an M2 although less sexy is a more robust chariot. None of the light jets other than the SF50 are selling well. Where people are putting their money in the turbine 6-7 seat market, at least first quarter:

Cirrus SF50, 18
Piper M500/600, 8
TBM 910/960, 5
Citation M2, 5
Eclipse!!!!!! 2
Embraer P100, 2
Epic E1000, 2
Honda Jet, 1

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:55

Yikes. I love the look but if it doesn’t perform, I suppose the market will speak. Does this fall into the if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it category? Wonder what will happen with hull values.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:58

But you meet the nicest people on a Honda!

Yeah, they have always been a poor sell, enough so when I see one I’m like “hey it’s a Honda jet” I don’t take note at PC12s, citations, phenoms, etc

As I recall the brakes and the price were a little ouch

Pax wise “it looks like a bug” and other comments probably don’t help

Side note I’m surprised the SF50 is doing as well as it is, maybe it’s all verijet?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 17:59

There's really no relation between Jet-It going under, and the hondajet runway fiasco, other than it being a very convenient excuse for Jet-It to use Force Majure to get out of their contracts.

The reality of it, from what I've read and seen, is the Jet-Its business model was flawed from the get-go and they were running out of money. 10/21 of their aircraft are currently at mx shops that wont release them due to no payment, they haven't paid hangar rent in months and therefore no longer have access to the logbooks for any of their planes, and they owe several employees six-figure sums.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:06

Username Protected wrote:

There's really no relation between Jet-It going under, and the hondajet runway fiasco, other than it being a very convenient excuse for Jet-It to use Force Majure to get out of their contracts.

The reality of it, from what I've read and seen, is the Jet-Its business model was flawed from the get-go and they were running out of money. 10/21 of their aircraft are currently at mx shops that wont release them due to no payment, they haven't paid hangar rent in months and therefore no longer have access to the logbooks for any of their planes, and they owe several employees six-figure sums.

Sounds like it’s time to go to the CEOs house and start making oneself whole

“Nice ski boat, what’s that worth? I’ll take it and you still have a balance of XYZ”

I have the same view of not paying workers as slave labor

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:06

Personally, I would be very happy in a Honda jet if someone parked it in my hanger. I would do whatever it takes to learn the intricacies of ground handling on it. Then maybe have just a little more limits on what conditions I would fly it in. I’ll keep my turbo prop for when runway conditions are Fugly.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:07

Username Protected wrote:

Personally, I would be very happy in a Honda jet if someone parked it in my hanger. I would do whatever it takes to learn the intricacies of ground handling on it. Then maybe have just a little more limits on what conditions I would fly it in. I’ll keep my turbo prop for when runway conditions are Fugly.

I’d sell it and get something a little more proven

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:12

This sure looks like price sensitivity in the market. Financing isn’t cheap any more and leasing considers finance cost.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:35

I flew one, ground handling and air manners seemed fine to me.

I think all these fractional business models that seem inexpensive for what you get will fail.

Netjet style ones work. And are insanely expensive relative to owning and operating. Seems like that’s the only way they work.

If Honda jets ever get super cheap I would certainly buy one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:38

The days of cheap money are gone for a little bit. A few friends are still financing and taking depreciation for vehicles but at 6% instead of 2% because they need the deduction and indicators are they will do 20-30% less next year.

We haven’t seen aviation crash yet, but maybe this and whatever is happening with WheelsUp is the beginning.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:39

Here’s the deal with the Honda Jet.

It’s quiet.
It has a very comfortable cabin for a small jet.
And, it has the largest and nicest bathroom of any small jet
(Bill Lear said I don’t have a bathroom in my Cadillac I don’t need one in my plane.)
But for some a real flushing pot and a real sink has significant value.

It’s a single pilot jet and if a HJ pilot is at the shallow end of the experience/capability pool, and pushes things, he (and the plane) may get bit.

But if you want/need what it offers, it’s great.

:thumbup:

As for Jet It’s complaint about reliability…..

Blaming equipment for shortcomings in management and/or a business plan isn’t outside the range of possible.
:scratch:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 18:50

Username Protected wrote:

Here’s the deal with the Honda Jet.

It’s quiet.
It has a very comfortable cabin for a small jet.
And, it has the largest and nicest bathroom of any small jet
(Bill Lear said I don’t have a bathroom in my Cadillac I don’t need one in my plane.)
But for some a real flushing pot and a real sink has significant value.

It’s a single pilot jet and if a HJ pilot is at the shallow end of the experience/capability pool, and pushes things, he (and the plane) may get bit.

But if you want/need what it offers, it’s great.

:thumbup:

As for Jet It’s complaint about reliability…..

Blaming equipment for shortcomings in management and/or a business plan isn’t outside the range of possible.
:scratch:

Mr Lear was right

Outside of people with medical issues, if you can’t go 3hrs without pooping yourself, not good

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 May 2023, 21:02

Username Protected wrote:

I think it’s a nice jet, but does have some ground handling issues. And it’s pricey I wouldn’t mind having one, really nice inside. But for the same money, an M2 although less sexy is a more robust chariot. None of the light jets other than the SF50 are selling well. Where people are putting their money in the turbine 6-7 seat market, at least first quarter:

Cirrus SF50, 18
Piper M500/600, 8
TBM 910/960, 5
Citation M2, 5
Eclipse!!!!!! 2
Embraer P100, 2
Epic E1000, 2
Honda Jet, 1

Chuck, where does it say Eclipse sold 2 new jets? Are they really making new ones or are they counting refurb of the used ones?