BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Mar 2023, 22:11

Username Protected wrote:

You need one of these!

Seriously, no joke.

I have a large placard which I put into the window. If my brakes are off (typical), it says "OK TO TOW" on a green background. If my brakes are set (rare), it says "DO NOT TOW" on a red background.

It is part of my post flight process to always put that card in the window.

I don't know where you buy one of these, it came with the airplane and is starting to get ratty, so I need a new one.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Mar 2023, 22:28

Username Protected wrote:

I have seen what it costs to get a plumber out to fix a leak in the house. The aviation mechanics and shops at every level are waaaaaaaaay undercharging.

I am surprised at these rates. I'm a Master Electrician. You can't get my services for less than $70 an hour.

I'm terribly busy, which allows me to fly.....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 00:39

Username Protected wrote:

You need one of these!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 01:38

Username Protected wrote:

Seriously, no joke.

I have a large placard which I put into the window. If my brakes are off (typical), it says "OK TO TOW" on a green background. If my brakes are set (rare), it says "DO NOT TOW" on a red background.

It is part of my post flight process to always put that card in the window.

I don't know where you buy one of these, it came with the airplane and is starting to get ratty, so I need a new one.

Mike C.

TAC Air used to have them for free on the counters, but TAC Air is no more. I've seen them at a few other FBOs.[/quote]

Hawthorne’s got ‘em.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 11:38

Username Protected wrote:

It seems the issue is these guys need to get the airplane from whatever airport it is on, like now.

If it is a big enough emergency, like escaping the zombie apocalypse, with a long enough runway, it will fly on one engine.

(Not a serious suggestion...)

I think Boeing had some takeoff data for 747s on 3 engines for ferry purposes.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 12:09

You can have them made at any sign shop for about $20.

Chip-

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 12:14

Username Protected wrote:

They didn’t tow it, they did high power run ups in that location while holding the brakes only, and no chocks, which is incredible because I’ve done run ups with some power before after the fact (because they never got the rigging correct) and we didn’t have any issues with dragging the mains

I was very concerned that the tires would have flat spots and be out of balance or wear prematurely

“Gold plated shop”

That seems really odd, most shops have to taxi the airplane to the runup area to do power runs, I've never given it much thought but I don't think they shut down, get out, chock the wheels, do the runs, shut down, get out, unchock, startup and taxi back.

A quick story about shops screwing up, this one was not a gold plated shop, but suppose it could happen to anyone, a shop at Fort Worth Meachum was doing power runs in a Lear 45XR, they let it get away from them, it took off and crashed into a berm, destroying the airplane.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 12:36

Username Protected wrote:

I have seen what it costs to get a plumber out to fix a leak in the house. The aviation mechanics and shops at every level are waaaaaaaaay undercharging.

These lower rates are exactly what Chip is talking about. I know at $40hr my guy does not have insurance and is just working from his truck. No way I would have that guy do major inspections and I would take to a shop that I would be paying retails of well over $120hr.

But the risk is worth the lower rate for small items. My guy can weigh a fire extinguisher or take the battery out to get check and there is very little risk of some major damage. Would I want him putting the plane on jacks, no.

Most A&P's are making $30-50hr directly. When you pay the shop rate of $150hr you are getting all the stuff that comes along with the shop rate, which you are paying for.

My guy worked for Duncan for 5 years as an engine guy. I wont have him do airframe work but I would feel comfortable with him doing a Check 1 on the engines. He is installing LED landing lights for me today. I am not worried about him screwing it up.

Sure there is risk with lower rate guys like Chip was saying. As an owner I balance risk and reward a lot. Some guys may not be willing to take any risk and they can go to Textron or Duncan for everything. Which ironically can also have risk.

In my business we charge customers $120hr. My employees are making average $40hr.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 12:38

Username Protected wrote:

That seems really odd, most shops have to taxi the airplane to the runup area to do power runs, I've never given it much thought but I don't think they shut down, get out, chock the wheels, do the runs, shut down, get out, unchock, startup and taxi back.

I've never seen shops not do it. And in most cases standard line chocks aren't enough, they need the bigger ones made for runups.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 14:51

Username Protected wrote:

a shop at Fort Worth Meachum was doing power runs in a Lear 45XR, they let it get away from them, it took off and crashed into a berm, destroying the airplane.

Like this?

Attachment:

747-into-ditch.png

Maintenance screw was going to taxi plane to gate, started #1 and #4 engines.

The brakes are powered by #2 and #3 engines.

Oops.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 16:17

Username Protected wrote:

You can have them made at any sign shop for about $20.

Chip-

And risk getting thrown off the CBC membership roll?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 16:18

Username Protected wrote:

a shop at Fort Worth Meachum was doing power runs in a Lear 45XR, they let it get away from them, it took off and crashed into a berm, destroying the airplane.

Like this?

Attachment:

747-into-ditch.png

Maintenance screw…...

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 17:24

Username Protected wrote:

I have very much enjoyed the back and forth here, despite the animosity. As a casual bystander I don't think Chip deserved the hard press from Mike but they both make good points. As with all airplanes there are different "classes' or "types" of owners. Open checkbook and money conscious. Income level doesn't necessarily dictate which class you fall into, it's more personality and time on your hands.

There will always be shops that cater to each type, the big name shops charge more because they can and because their overhead is higher, they tend to cater to the open checkbook crowd (same in every industry really, there's always the dichotomy).

On a semi related note, i browed through the catalog Mike attached and pretty much confirmed what I already expected. Jet parts are expensive

I can machine this door hinge on one of my CNC mills for under $100 :bugeye:

Would this not be eligible for the Owner Produced Parts procedure, or can we do that on jets?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 17:24

Yep! These guys got lucky that the curb and berm stopped them, on the other side was a hangar full of airplanes. This happened in 2009 and the airplane was a 2005!

I will say that seeing that Lear 45 disassembled at Alliance Air Parts in OKC is why I am such a fan of the Lear 45/75, they had the wing removed, the center structure of that wing is incredible!

I have photos somewhere, but here's one I found online.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Mar 2023, 17:35

Don’t forget about the Etihad A340 that was destroyed by engineers prior to delivery.

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a340-wr ... -delivery/

Talk me into / out of a Meridian