Hi Jim,

My AFM and OM are in the plane but looking at my abbreviated checklist, I am showing 2,950' for seal level/gross (11,850)/ISA takeoff. I have the 12,500 gross weight mod. It consists of larger brakes, switching from 10-ply to 12-ply tires (which is what the 560 and other larger Citations use), and new performance charts for >11,850 operation. >11,850 definitely gets interesting when hot/high. I have only used the STC weight range once and that was a trip to the Bahamas with 8 people in March last year. So temps were medium and no obstacles on either end. Trip was fantastic - doing it again in a couple weeks.

What is your lease rate per hour?

Includes fuel or no?

If no fuel, how do you account for what is left in the tank?

Mike C.

Thanks! Can you share the 12,500 charts? I live hot & high. I think 2 out of the three runways at SAF (6300' length, 6300' elevation, uphill into the prevailing winds) would be unusable for most of the summer. My logs show I use them 25% of the time. The main runway is 8300' with an 0.8% grade. Takeoffs are downhill about 2/3 of the time.

Thanks Chip - Well insurance for a Meridian or 501 usually isn't a problem securing mainly due to 'low' hull values of those ships - Meridian (not M500 or 600) certainly sub $1.5 and 501's typically sub 750k valuations. So with Meridians having the lower hull value comparative to say TBM9XX, PC12's in the TP class and the 501 being WELL under Mustangs, CJ's etc - insurance typically is 'reasonable' for either aircraft for a pilot to transition - and usually several underwriting options to pick from. I will say that transition underwriting market is very narrow (markets that will quote you) over 65 and certainly over age 70. I always advise clients that if you have turbine or jet fever don't wait until you are 73 to pull the trigger - you will pay significantly higher rates and it will be more difficult to come by in your 70's.

Unless you start it with a tailwind. This was a CJ4 outcome:

FJ44s have a sensitivity to this more so than most engines. Not clear why, but been a number of these cases, so be diligent. And it isn't just tailwinds, watch out for prop/jet blast from other planes, too, that might up your tail.

I'm very particular about starting into the wind. When I go on a trip, I try to look at the forecast winds for my departure time and park the airplane so that will be a headwind. If the wind changes, I get the plane moved. My test is if the N1 (the big fan) is turning backwards, which happens at about 7 to 8 knots, then the plane has to be moved.

Mike C.

Oh wow, thats ugly.

We are careful with tail winds for starts and so is our FBO. They have swapped it for us on the ramp when the wind changed without us saying anything.

I have no idea that would happen. Haha thanks for sharing.

Mike

Hi Jim,

Yeah, at 6,000' elevation, the chart for 12,500 stops at 15C with a 7,312' runway required.

Hi Jim,

Yeah, at 6,000' elevation, the chart for 12,500 stops at 15C with a 7,312' runway required.

KSAF, Sante Fe, NM is 6349 ft.


The long runway will work all the time outside some truly bizarre conditions, and if the winds are strong, then one of the others will work since headwind shortens runway requirements.

The main issue is max permitted weight based on elevation and temperature. This assures single engine performance of some amount after takeoff with the gear extended. Here are the 6000 and 7000 ft elevation charts (annoyingly in F):

Note that flaps 0 is higher weight since you have better climb performance flaps up, but runway lengths will be longer due to increased V speeds.

For KSAF, you can roughly average the two elevations. That will be conservative since you are closer to 6000 than 7000 ft.

The hottest month is July, and the average high is 30 C in July, that would limit you to 11,400 lbs, only 450 lbs under max. As the temp goes up, you lose about 100 lbs per degree C.

If no engine fails, which is highly likely, then you have no problem at all. If an engine does fail, then you have assured liftoff and initial climb performance from the charts. Once you get airborne, gear retraction takes 4 seconds and you get more climb performance from then on.

The climb performance for a Meridian with one engine out is, well, not good. You have to keep in mind the different standard that applies to each aircraft. If you follow the charts for the 501, you are never in a situation where an engine failure is dangerous.

Mike C.

Good thing it never gets over 59F here in the summer!

Ok we’ve beat takeoff to death, what are we burning in cruise?
Probably wrong to use a jet for my normal trip but 166nm?
476nm trip?

Figure no winds and they average out round trip?

What real-world runway lengths are 501 drivers using? If the book says 2900' and you're at a 3000 foot runway, do you send it?

What are the accel-stop distances for one knot less than V1? It's been said that there's about 1000 feet from Vr to obstacle clearance - can the 501 stop in that distance at gross weight if an abort is made just before V1?

Looking at my logs for the last few years, there's at least one runway I've used where jets are prohibited, several that are shorter than published distances, and quite a few more where the published TO length is 80% or more of the runway length.

I was looking at the increased GW because I'd have to stop *eastbound* sometimes, which would make a 501 slower than a B200.

Yes.

You will use 2900 ft if you have an engine failure right before V1 and you abort.

You will use 2900 ft to reach 35 ft AGL if the engines fails right after V1 and you go flying. The in air part of this is about 1000 ft (longer on higher, hotter, heavier days).

If both engines work, you will be more than 100 ft high by 2900 ft.


Aborting before V1 will use less runway. How much less is hard to say, maybe 50 to 100 ft less per knot before V1?


Yes.

Certification test done with 100% worn tires, 100% worn brakes, with defined pilot recognition times, using no extraordinary piloting skills. Also, not using TRs. You likely have one TR you can use, if equipped.

The book numbers precisely tell you that the plane can stop. There is some margin built into them.


There are places jets can't go.


I'd be curious to see the details of that analysis.

The faster climb and cruise speeds can make up for a ground stop on trips of enough length.

And then you go westbound into a 100 knot headwind. Now higher speed is hugely important.

Maybe your trip lengths need a longer range airplane than the 501. That's why I have a V.

Mike C.

Not wrong if that is what you have.

These figures are using the fltplan.com 501 profile with typical winds for KBHM to KMAC, and KBHM to KTUL (just to get some representative legs). Figures are average each way.

167 nm: ~950 lbs, 0:42

478 nm: ~1820 lbs, 1:42

Buzzing around at low altitude is not a jet thing, so the short leg isn't ideal. Jets are for taking trips and traveling. That doesn't mean I don't tool around shooting approaches on occasion, which I do. The fuel burn isn't too bad doing that, about 1000 pph since you are at low power settings.

For grins, did my V on LRC (long range cruise):

167 nm: ~1030 lbs, 0:39

478 nm: ~1870 lbs, 1:30

It is surprising how little extra fuel the V uses over a 501. This is due to faster speed, flying higher, better wing, and more efficient engines.

If I crank my V up to MCT (max cruise thrust):

167 nm: ~1230 lbs, 0:36

478 nm: ~2120 lbs, 1:24

Not much time gained for the higher fuel used.

These are short trips in a jet. If you are doing mostly trips of 300 nm or less, a jet is not ideal. Your trips will get longer with a jet because you can go further due to less fatigue and more speed.

Mike C.

Worth noting that on a Meridian max fuel is 1140 lbs. and a normal fill (if you don’t hold the fuelers hand) is about 1080 lbs.