BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Jan 2023, 12:43

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit. Highest ever GS and TAS yesterday on our way home from KAXX. Our normal TAS is 365 but was cruising at 372 yesterday. The big difference is that we nearly maxed out the nose baggage. Normally when we are going to fill the nose I will remove the 130lbs of rocks I keep there as ballast for CG. But in this case the plane was going to be sitting out at KAXX and snow was forecast during our stay. I was worried about snow accumulating on the horizontal stabilizer with an empty nose so I left the rocks in. Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Attachment:

PXL_20230116_232031512.jpg

Awesome GS!!
Typically being far aft CG increases TAS...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Jan 2023, 14:09

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit. Highest ever GS and TAS yesterday on our way home from KAXX. Our normal TAS is 365 but was cruising at 372 yesterday.

What was the temp? ISA- sure helps.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Jan 2023, 14:39

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit. Highest ever GS and TAS yesterday on our way home from KAXX. Our normal TAS is 365 but was cruising at 372 yesterday.

What was the temp? ISA- sure helps.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Jan 2023, 16:22

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit. Highest ever GS and TAS yesterday on our way home from KAXX. Our normal TAS is 365 but was cruising at 372 yesterday. The big difference is that we nearly maxed out the nose baggage. Normally when we are going to fill the nose I will remove the 130lbs of rocks I keep there as ballast for CG. But in this case the plane was going to be sitting out at KAXX and snow was forecast during our stay. I was worried about snow accumulating on the horizontal stabilizer with an empty nose so I left the rocks in. Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Attachment:

PXL_20230116_232031512.jpg

I will brag on Chris' bird also, it's the fastest 501 I've ever flown also.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Jan 2023, 23:38

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit.

My turn.

Attachment:

n618k-fast-1.png

Got up to 535 GS later as winds picked up a bit.

I wasn't at max power, either, but backed off a bit. Was close to Vmo and didn't want to go over.

I don't normally operate at FL330, but thee was a big tailwind at that altitude and I was curious how it would do. At FL400/410, I get about 410 KTAS.

Quote:

Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Tail heavy is faster, so what you noticed is opposite of the underlying mechanism.

My plane operates near the rear CG limit much of the time which makes it fast.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 02:04

Username Protected wrote:

My plane operates near the rear CG limit much of the time which makes it fast.

Mike, do you notice any pitch stability issues with the CG near the rear limit, such as in turbulence?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 09:52

Username Protected wrote:

Klingon jet

Small world...it's back.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ca ... =aircraft#

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 10:32

Username Protected wrote:

Mike, do you notice any pitch stability issues with the CG near the rear limit, such as in turbulence?

Not particularly.

Since being near the rear CG means you fly with a slightly reduced AOA and slightly faster, turbulence will be a little more noticeable, but the effect is tiny. I haven't noticed lacking pitch stability.

I spent 13 years flying a tail heavy MU2, so perhaps I am just used to it.

It is much easier to fix a tail heavy Citation than a nose heavy one due to the nose baggage being so far forward of the CG.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 10:42

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit.

My turn.

Attachment:

n618k-fast-1.png

Got up to 535 GS later as winds picked up a bit.

I wasn't at max power, either, but backed off a bit. Was close to Vmo and didn't want to go over.

I don't normally operate at FL330, but thee was a big tailwind at that altitude and I was curious how it would do. At FL400/410, I get about 410 KTAS.

Quote:

Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Tail heavy is faster, so what you noticed is opposite of the underlying mechanism.

My plane operates near the rear CG limit much of the time which makes it fast.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 11:36

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Tail heavy is faster, so what you noticed is opposite of the underlying mechanism.

My plane operates near the rear CG limit much of the time which makes it fast.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 12:20

Username Protected wrote:

That's cheating mike, because this is a 501 thread.

I agree, having a Citation V is cheating.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2023, 12:23

Username Protected wrote:

So maybe there is such a thing as being too tail heavy (while still within limits) for max TAS?

No, not usually.

The further back you go, the less tail downforce you have, thus the less total lift you need to make. At far enough back, the tail force can actually go positive as well.

Quote:

Could have been temperature related as Clint noted.

Probably the reason. Temperature has a pretty big effect on these planes.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2023, 11:57

Username Protected wrote:

I wanted to brag on my bird a bit. Highest ever GS and TAS yesterday on our way home from KAXX. Our normal TAS is 365 but was cruising at 372 yesterday. The big difference is that we nearly maxed out the nose baggage. Normally when we are going to fill the nose I will remove the 130lbs of rocks I keep there as ballast for CG. But in this case the plane was going to be sitting out at KAXX and snow was forecast during our stay. I was worried about snow accumulating on the horizontal stabilizer with an empty nose so I left the rocks in. Maybe having extra weight in the nose allowed the extra 7 knots of TAS?

Attachment:

PXL_20230116_232031512.jpg

I don't think I would have sold my 501sp if I saw TAS anywhere close to that. Mine were typically in the 330-340's.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2023, 21:05

I don’t know if it made a difference, but Chris’ Airplane was ceramic coated.

My personal 501 is rather slow also, it goes about 340 But I run mine very conservatively in the 630 degree ITT range.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2023, 21:07

I'll take some ceramic coating if that's the kind of true airspeed I can get!

Citation 501sp