26 May 2025, 00:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 13:14 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 807 Post Likes: +462 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles? And has that increased since trading up from the MU2?
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 13:14 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 807 Post Likes: +462 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles? And has that increased since trading up from the MU2?
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 14:35 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20101 Post Likes: +25230 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles? For 2022, about 5% and they represent about 15% of the miles flown. Quote: And has that increased since trading up from the MU2? Yes, I have made a number of flights that would not be non stop in the MU2. Longer range has also allowed my to optimize my fuel costs. I can choose to tanker in more fuel if the fuel cost is significantly cheaper at departure. Sometimes this has saved me as much as $2.50 per gallon. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 14:50 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 3639 Post Likes: +2309 Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
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Username Protected wrote: I have 1100 lbs left when tanks are full.
Mike C.
Tanks are too small. 
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 15:45 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3388 Post Likes: +4878 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: I have 1100 lbs left when tanks are full.
Mike C.
Tanks are too small. 
Yeah. Full fuel useful load is an almost worthless metric. I could carry 1100 lbs full fuel in my M600 if I decreased my fuel tanks to 4:45 minutes fuel. . Me, I would rather have the full fuel useful load be me and a light bag.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 16:41 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20101 Post Likes: +25230 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Tanks are too small. :peace: Prior to my avionics mod, by the time you put two crew and 1 passenger, you had maxed out the full fuel payload. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 20:48 |
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Joined: 03/09/13 Posts: 923 Post Likes: +466 Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: C525,C25A,C25C,CL604
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Username Protected wrote: Second would be the Cirrus VLJ.
On man, you had to bring that up, thought it was going to be quiet 2023. Andrew
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 21:21 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20101 Post Likes: +25230 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: My two cents for Best Light Jet:
Cessna 501SP. Nice plane. I considered one during my hunt. I ended up passing on it due to low speed and low range. The JT15D-1 engines are not very efficient, so much so that my V will often do a trip for about the same fuel as the 501SP because I fly so much faster and higher. 501SP owners say they burn about 1200 pph going 370 KTAS in the mid 30s. I'm doing 410 KTAS on 1150 pph in the 40s. If you modify the 501SP with FJ44-2A engines, so call "Stallion" conversion, then it gets much faster, can fly much higher, and can fly much further. You do give up thrust reversers and you pay the Williams tax to do this, but the plane is a lot better performer. The "Eagle II" mod, which is FJ44-2A and added fuel in a wing hump is not that great an airplane, IMO. The fuel hump limits speed in cruise so much that the extra fuel doesn't add as much range as you'd think, particularly in a headwind. The FJ44 modified ones can't get a LUMP from Textron, so they cost more to maintain on top of the Williams tax. The 501SP is single pilot out of the box, and it is under 12,500 lbs, both of which makes the regulatory and other issues less than my plane. For example, in Europe, I need TCAS II 7.1 (which I don't have), and the 501SP doesn't, due to the weight being under 12,500 lbs. I also can't generally operate single pilot outside the USA. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 01 Jan 2023, 21:26 |
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Joined: 12/31/17 Posts: 1033 Post Likes: +606 Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560
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Username Protected wrote: Tanks are too small.  Prior to my avionics mod, by the time you put two crew and 1 passenger, you had maxed out the full fuel payload. Mike C.
I flew an S/II that was at gross with full fuel and 2 pilots.
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 02 Jan 2023, 01:08 |
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Joined: 12/25/12 Posts: 3862 Post Likes: +4080 Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
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Username Protected wrote: Hour 10 with headwinds. Mark, be honest. :-) We can check your figures. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFL ... /KSDL/KTEXhttps://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFL ... /KTEX/KSDLLooks like 1:23 and 1:22 flight times. As long as we are bragging, flight planner says 1:00, 1480 lbs fuel for my V from KTEX to KSDL with a 5 knot tailwind. Was the stop in KABQ for fuel? I wouldn't need one on a KOJC to KSDL leg. I'd save about 90 minutes total. As long as we are bragging... :-) Mike C.
Dang Mark. Now I have to check all of your posts. Are you really a college ski racer? Do you even still get Platinum metals skiing anymore as you say? Is that even your family? Who was flying the helicopter in your videos? Bring it back partner. We are here to help you…………
_________________ Rocky Hill
Altitude is Everything.
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 02 Jan 2023, 10:07 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14307 Post Likes: +12028 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Dang Mark. Now I have to check all of your posts. Are you really a college ski racer? Do you even still get Platinum metals skiing anymore as you say? Is that even your family? Who was flying the helicopter in your videos? Bring it back partner. We are here to help you…………
I am whoever you say I am, if I wasn’t, why would I say I am ? Apologies to Marshal Mathers (aka Eminem).
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 02 Jan 2023, 10:42 |
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Joined: 11/07/11 Posts: 807 Post Likes: +462 Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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Didn't expect to wake up to The Way I Am in the LJ thread this morning. Good work.
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 02 Jan 2023, 13:21 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 8291 Post Likes: +10476 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: My two cents for Best Light Jet:
Cessna 501SP. Nice plane. I considered one during my hunt. I ended up passing on it due to low speed and low range. The JT15D-1 engines are not very efficient, so much so that my V will often do a trip for about the same fuel as the 501SP because I fly so much faster and higher. 501SP owners say they burn about 1200 pph going 370 KTAS in the mid 30s. I'm doing 410 KTAS on 1150 pph in the 40s. If you modify the 501SP with FJ44-2A engines, so call "Stallion" conversion, then it gets much faster, can fly much higher, and can fly much further. You do give up thrust reversers and you pay the Williams tax to do this, but the plane is a lot better performer. The "Eagle II" mod, which is FJ44-2A and added fuel in a wing hump is not that great an airplane, IMO. The fuel hump limits speed in cruise so much that the extra fuel doesn't add as much range as you'd think, particularly in a headwind. The FJ44 modified ones can't get a LUMP from Textron, so they cost more to maintain on top of the Williams tax. The 501SP is single pilot out of the box, and it is under 12,500 lbs, both of which makes the regulatory and other issues less than my plane. For example, in Europe, I need TCAS II 7.1 (which I don't have), and the 501SP doesn't, due to the weight being under 12,500 lbs. I also can't generally operate single pilot outside the USA. Mike C.
"410 KTAS on 1150 PPH"
Mike,
Like some others, rather than doing detailed flight planning for fuel, I just used 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hour burns, and it came out pretty close.
As I recall, for the Lear 35 it was 1400, 1200, 1100, 450 knots. For the Lear 24 I think it was 2000, 1400, 1200, then you better be on final approach.
We had the Citation 501SP and the Lear 35 in the flight department and a typical trip was on Fridays taking the boss home from Houston to Wichita Falls. Sometimes we would take the Citation and sometimes the 35. They burned the same trip fuel, but the Lear did it in .3 hours less time.
For your 1150 burn, is that your second hour fuel burn?
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 02 Jan 2023, 13:41 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20101 Post Likes: +25230 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: For your 1150 burn, is that your second hour fuel burn? Mid cruise weight. The fuel burn in the Citation is not as dependent on weight as the Lear is, I suspect. The pounds by hour thing I have yet to develop since it varies with weights, length, temperature, etc. I've been using the Ultra MCT fltplan.com profile and usually beat it by 5-10%. I probably need to do something of higher fidelity when I get to flying max length legs. I'm starting to experiment more with lower cruise power settings to see how the plane feels at altitude. Maximum range does require backing off the power some. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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