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26 May 2025, 01:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 13:14 
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Joined: 11/07/11
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Location: KBED, KCRE
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What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles? And has that increased since trading up from the MU2?

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 13:14 
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Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 807
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Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles? And has that increased since trading up from the MU2?

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 14:35 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20104
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
What percent of your trips are over 1,000 miles?

For 2022, about 5% and they represent about 15% of the miles flown.

Quote:
And has that increased since trading up from the MU2?

Yes, I have made a number of flights that would not be non stop in the MU2.

Longer range has also allowed my to optimize my fuel costs. I can choose to tanker in more fuel if the fuel cost is significantly cheaper at departure. Sometimes this has saved me as much as $2.50 per gallon.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 14:50 
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3639
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
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Username Protected wrote:

I have 1100 lbs left when tanks are full.

Mike C.


Tanks are too small. :peace:


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 15:45 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
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Username Protected wrote:

I have 1100 lbs left when tanks are full.

Mike C.


Tanks are too small. :peace:


Yeah. Full fuel useful load is an almost worthless metric. I could carry 1100 lbs full fuel in my M600 if I decreased my fuel tanks to 4:45 minutes fuel. ;-). Me, I would rather have the full fuel useful load be me and a light bag.
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Piper M600
Ogden UT


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 16:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
Tanks are too small. :peace:

Prior to my avionics mod, by the time you put two crew and 1 passenger, you had maxed out the full fuel payload.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 19:09 
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Joined: 03/28/17
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My two cents for Best Light Jet:

Cessna 501SP. That's what I would have if I could. Second would be the Cirrus VLJ.

I flew the 501SP for awhile and found it to be very easy handling, forgiving , short field capable, and comfortable.

Every airplane has it's tradeoffs when additional capabilities are added, but I found the 501SP to be a great all-around jet, very safe in the hands of a properly trained typical GA pilot.

Other Cessna jets came out after I flew the 501, and there may be newer versions that do the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 20:48 
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Joined: 03/09/13
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Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
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Username Protected wrote:
Second would be the Cirrus VLJ.



On man, you had to bring that up, thought it was going to be quiet 2023.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 21:21 
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My two cents for Best Light Jet:

Cessna 501SP.

Nice plane. I considered one during my hunt.

I ended up passing on it due to low speed and low range. The JT15D-1 engines are not very efficient, so much so that my V will often do a trip for about the same fuel as the 501SP because I fly so much faster and higher. 501SP owners say they burn about 1200 pph going 370 KTAS in the mid 30s. I'm doing 410 KTAS on 1150 pph in the 40s.

If you modify the 501SP with FJ44-2A engines, so call "Stallion" conversion, then it gets much faster, can fly much higher, and can fly much further. You do give up thrust reversers and you pay the Williams tax to do this, but the plane is a lot better performer.

The "Eagle II" mod, which is FJ44-2A and added fuel in a wing hump is not that great an airplane, IMO. The fuel hump limits speed in cruise so much that the extra fuel doesn't add as much range as you'd think, particularly in a headwind.

The FJ44 modified ones can't get a LUMP from Textron, so they cost more to maintain on top of the Williams tax.

The 501SP is single pilot out of the box, and it is under 12,500 lbs, both of which makes the regulatory and other issues less than my plane. For example, in Europe, I need TCAS II 7.1 (which I don't have), and the 501SP doesn't, due to the weight being under 12,500 lbs. I also can't generally operate single pilot outside the USA.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2023, 21:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
Tanks are too small. :peace:

Prior to my avionics mod, by the time you put two crew and 1 passenger, you had maxed out the full fuel payload.

Mike C.


I flew an S/II that was at gross with full fuel and 2 pilots.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2023, 01:08 
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Joined: 12/25/12
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Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
Username Protected wrote:
Hour 10 with headwinds.

Mark, be honest. :-)

We can check your figures.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFL ... /KSDL/KTEX

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFL ... /KTEX/KSDL

Looks like 1:23 and 1:22 flight times.

As long as we are bragging, flight planner says 1:00, 1480 lbs fuel for my V from KTEX to KSDL with a 5 knot tailwind.

Was the stop in KABQ for fuel? I wouldn't need one on a KOJC to KSDL leg. I'd save about 90 minutes total.

As long as we are bragging... :-)

Mike C.



Dang Mark. Now I have to check all of your posts. Are you really a college ski racer? Do you even still get Platinum metals skiing anymore as you say? Is that even your family? Who was flying the helicopter in your videos? Bring it back partner. We are here to help you…………
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Altitude is Everything.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2023, 10:07 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:

Dang Mark. Now I have to check all of your posts. Are you really a college ski racer? Do you even still get Platinum metals skiing anymore as you say? Is that even your family? Who was flying the helicopter in your videos? Bring it back partner. We are here to help you…………


I am whoever you say I am, if I wasn’t, why would I say I am ? Apologies to Marshal Mathers (aka Eminem).

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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2023, 10:42 
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Joined: 11/07/11
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Location: KBED, KCRE
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Didn't expect to wake up to The Way I Am in the LJ thread this morning. Good work.

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2023, 13:21 
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Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 8291
Post Likes: +10476
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
Username Protected wrote:
My two cents for Best Light Jet:

Cessna 501SP.

Nice plane. I considered one during my hunt.

I ended up passing on it due to low speed and low range. The JT15D-1 engines are not very efficient, so much so that my V will often do a trip for about the same fuel as the 501SP because I fly so much faster and higher. 501SP owners say they burn about 1200 pph going 370 KTAS in the mid 30s. I'm doing 410 KTAS on 1150 pph in the 40s.

If you modify the 501SP with FJ44-2A engines, so call "Stallion" conversion, then it gets much faster, can fly much higher, and can fly much further. You do give up thrust reversers and you pay the Williams tax to do this, but the plane is a lot better performer.

The "Eagle II" mod, which is FJ44-2A and added fuel in a wing hump is not that great an airplane, IMO. The fuel hump limits speed in cruise so much that the extra fuel doesn't add as much range as you'd think, particularly in a headwind.

The FJ44 modified ones can't get a LUMP from Textron, so they cost more to maintain on top of the Williams tax.

The 501SP is single pilot out of the box, and it is under 12,500 lbs, both of which makes the regulatory and other issues less than my plane. For example, in Europe, I need TCAS II 7.1 (which I don't have), and the 501SP doesn't, due to the weight being under 12,500 lbs. I also can't generally operate single pilot outside the USA.

Mike C.


"410 KTAS on 1150 PPH"

Mike,

Like some others, rather than doing detailed flight planning for fuel, I just used 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hour burns, and it came out pretty close.

As I recall, for the Lear 35 it was 1400, 1200, 1100, 450 knots. For the Lear 24 I think it was 2000, 1400, 1200, then you better be on final approach. :D

We had the Citation 501SP and the Lear 35 in the flight department and a typical trip was on Fridays taking the boss home from Houston to Wichita Falls. Sometimes we would take the Citation and sometimes the 35. They burned the same trip fuel, but the Lear did it in .3 hours less time.

For your 1150 burn, is that your second hour fuel burn?

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is...
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2023, 13:41 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20104
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
For your 1150 burn, is that your second hour fuel burn?

Mid cruise weight.

The fuel burn in the Citation is not as dependent on weight as the Lear is, I suspect.

The pounds by hour thing I have yet to develop since it varies with weights, length, temperature, etc. I've been using the Ultra MCT fltplan.com profile and usually beat it by 5-10%. I probably need to do something of higher fidelity when I get to flying max length legs.

I'm starting to experiment more with lower cruise power settings to see how the plane feels at altitude. Maximum range does require backing off the power some.

Mike C.

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