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01 Oct 2022, 06:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 23:07 
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I may have the opportunity to fly a vintage electrical system.

I'd feel more comfortable with ADSB out, and the airspace we will use requires it. I know it has to be permanently mounted - but can it be battery powered as well?

Has anyone tried this?


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2022, 23:28 
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Many gliders and some balloons are out there flying with battery powered ADS-B Out. Trig 22 is the de facto best option for a battery powered ADS-B Out transponder.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 01:15 
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Thanks for the quick reply.....


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 02:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
I may have the opportunity to fly a vintage electrical system.

…the airspace we will use requires it.

Has anyone tried this?


Just to avoid any confusion, 14 CFR 91.225(e) exempts the aircraft you describe from the ADS-B requirements. Just like the mode C transponder regulations, if the aircraft never had an electrical system you’re good to go without.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 09:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
I may have the opportunity to fly a vintage electrical system.

…the airspace we will use requires it.

Has anyone tried this?


Just to avoid any confusion, 14 CFR 91.225(e) exempts the aircraft you describe from the ADS-B requirements. Just like the mode C transponder regulations, if the aircraft never had an electrical system you’re good to go without.

Don’t you have to have advance permission to fly in rule airspace, though? When I had a non-transponded Cub, we had to call on the phone for permission to enter the Charlie.
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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 09:33 
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I have also made that phone call for permission to enter the class C airspace, in my case it was a C150 trainer that lived in a small town and had never gotten a transponder. That’s the plane I learned to fly in. 1996 was the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 10:50 
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Username Protected wrote:

Just to avoid any confusion, 14 CFR 91.225(e) exempts the aircraft you describe from the ADS-B requirements. Just like the mode C transponder regulations, if the aircraft never had an electrical system you’re good to go without.


Don’t you have to have advance permission to fly in rule airspace, though? When I had a non-transponded Cub, we had to call on the phone for permission to enter the Charlie.


The non-equipped aircraft must be:

(1) Outside any Class B or Class C airspace area; and

(2) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower.


If you want to fly in the above airspace:

(g) Requests for ATC authorized deviations from the requirements of this section must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

(1) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative ADS-B Out, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.

(2) For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with ADS-B Out, the request must be made at least 1 hour before the proposed operation.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 14:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
I may have the opportunity to fly a vintage electrical system.

I'd feel more comfortable with ADSB out, and the airspace we will use requires it. I know it has to be permanently mounted - but can it be battery powered as well?

Has anyone tried this?

Will probably need a Permanent System of External GPS Antenna and Transponder Antenna. Transponder/ADSB Unit or Transponder and ADSB Unit. Battery.
Items may need to be installed IAW a STC which has specifics and installation instructions or you may need some kind of field approval.

Could you fly formation with another A/C already equipped. They could provide the needed electronic services.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 14:21 
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This is a good discussion. The one thing I would like to point is that in addition to complying with the regulatory requirements of ADS-B in a vintage aircraft, to me it is of greater interest that I am visible to other aircraft in the airspace I am flying in.

Getting ADS-B "in" on an iPad with an external device is simple enough - I just don't want to get rammed by another aircraft like what happened to the paraglider in Houston with the UPS C208 a few weeks ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Antique A/C with no electrical system....ADSB?
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 16:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just to avoid any confusion, 14 CFR 91.225(e) exempts the aircraft you describe from the ADS-B requirements. Just like the mode C transponder regulations, if the aircraft never had an electrical system you’re good to go without.

Don’t you have to have advance permission to fly in rule airspace, though? When I had a non-transponded Cub, we had to call on the phone for permission to enter the Charlie.

I fly a non-electric airplane from a towered airport underneath Class Bravo. Normally the only limitation is that I cannot enter the Bravo or go above 10,000. The rules for non-electric are much less restrictive than for any airplane with an electrical system that doesn't have ADS-B out or a transponder.

I don't understand why the FAA doesn't allow and promote a battery powered 978MHz (UAT) ADS-B out solution for non-electric airplanes that doesn't also require a transponder. Since I'm never going to be anywhere that needs a discrete transponder code I don't think there are any technical reason why this wouldn't work as a means of reducing the chances of being run over from behind.
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