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06 Jul 2022, 00:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2022, 22:20 
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S15A engines? Intercoolers?



Intercoolers are in wing root.
One of the pictures shows to scoop on the right wing (inboard of the engine).

Forrest

That opening in the wing is an air to air intercooler, but it is not for the engine air intake. That intercooler is only found on P, pressurized, models as it uses ambient ram air to cool the bleed air coming from the turbos to pressurize the cabin. The engine intake intercoolers, which cool the air that is pressurized and heated by compressing air in the compressor of the turbo and the heat of the turbo are mounted below the engine cowling and have a large, foot and a half, wide composite scoop added under the engine cowling.

You can plainly see it on my turbocharged intercooled 601B. And, the inner wing root is clean as it is not pressurized.

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Last edited on 12 Jan 2022, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2022, 22:28 
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Very nice plane. It will make someone very happy.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 00:06 
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Company: Northern Aviation, LLC
Aircraft: C45H, Aerostar, T28B
Username Protected wrote:
That opening in the wing is an air to air intercooler, but it is not for the engine air intake. That intercooler is only found on P, pressurized, models as it uses ambient ram air to cool the bleed air coming from the turbos to pressurize the cabin. The engine intake intercoolers, which cool the air that is pressurized and heated by compressing air in the compressor of the turbo and the heat of the turbo are mounted below the engine cowling and have a large, foot and a half, wide composite scoop added under the engine cowling.

You can plainly see it on my turbocharged intercooled 601B. And, the inner wing root is clean as it is not pressurized.

I dont see intercoolers on 27LL.


The bleed air heat exchanger air inlets on a regular P-model aren’t in the wing, they are in the wing/fuselage fairing. The exit is an aft facing slit opening on the bottom of the wing a couple feet behind the leading edge. I tape mine up in the winter to get more heat in the cabin.

Sweet plane, I’ve been told the 680 has the best TO performance due to the long props.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 00:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
That opening in the wing is an air to air intercooler, but it is not for the engine air intake. That intercooler is only found on P, pressurized, models as it uses ambient ram air to cool the bleed air coming from the turbos to pressurize the cabin. The engine intake intercoolers, which cool the air that is pressurized and heated by compressing air in the compressor of the turbo and the heat of the turbo are mounted below the engine cowling and have a large, foot and a half, wide composite scoop added under the engine cowling.

You can plainly see it on my turbocharged intercooled 601B. And, the inner wing root is clean as it is not pressurized.

I dont see intercoolers on 27LL.


Umm, you sure about all that? There are certainly Aerostars with wing mounted induction intercoolers as Forrest pointed out.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 11:24 
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Username Protected wrote:

Umm, you sure about all that? There are certainly Aerostars with wing mounted induction intercoolers as Forrest pointed out.


Yes. 700Ps had an intercooler mounted in nacelle on the firewall. Air intake is from top of engine nacelle and exhausted from nacelle with flow going aft over the wing; maybe that description of the flow going aft of nacelle is confusing some. The air to air heat exchangers in the wing are to cool bleed air for P models.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 13:44 
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This is getting a bit far afield for a "For Sale" listing, but I think it important to correct some incorrect, or at least confusing information, for folks that might be considering this plane.

While the bleed air heat exchanger on stock P-models is located in the forward wing between the engine and fuselage, the induction air intercooler on some conversions, like the 680 and the J2BD powered Superstar, are located between the engine and cabin as well. However the difference is clearly visible just by looking at the two.

The first picture is the 680, note the intercooler inlet just behind the leading edge and the absence of the bleed air cooler inlet in the wing root fairing. This wing mounted induction air cooler also prevents the installation of the inboard de-ice boots. Compare this to the second picture of a original configuration with the bleed air cooler inlet on my 601P. The opening is covered with yellow masking tape to provide more cabin heat in the winter. The third picture is the bleed air cooler and air pump regulator discharge located on the bottom of the wing on the access cover. The streaking you see is residue from the pump vanes as they wear.

As far as I know there were at least three induction air intercooler locations on the A*, the most common is the one mounted below the engine, some however just used a different location.

Jeff
Attachment:
680.PNG

Attachment:
601P(1).jpg

Attachment:
601P(2).jpg


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 14:43 
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Location: Shafter Minter Field, CA
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Very interested in your Aerostar. please call me 661-391-8800


Last edited on 20 Jan 2022, 14:16, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 15:43 
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That taped up one for bleed is the one I'm talking about and is mentioned in the manual pages i posted. I’ve never seen that one below the wing leading edge inside of the nacelle. I dont see it mentioned in the Aerostar Owners Association Manual either under any of the various models. Maybe there are 3 different intercooler installations. Have you seen the inner wing root bleed cooler, P model, and the one mounted below the wing next to the engine nacelle on the same airplane?

I see the one Forrest is talking about now in the photos of 27LL. It is in the front view and one looking back from the main entry door. It’s subtle, but it’s there. Don’t see the bleed heat exchanger in any of the photos though.

I think this discussion is good. Folks new to the Aerostars, and owners like myself, are discovering new info. We are keeping his ad at the top of the list too! I’m sure it will sell soon!


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2022, 10:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
I’ve never seen that one below the wing leading edge inside of the nacelle. I don't see it mentioned in the Aerostar Owners Association Manual either under any of the various models. Maybe there are 3 different intercooler installations.

It's not a maybe Joe.

The original 601B (turbo normalized, non-pressurized), 601P (turbo normalized, pressurized) and Piper Sequoya/602P (Low compression turbocharged, pressurized) have clean cowls and no intercooling. The 601P and 602P have the ovoid opening to cool the bleed air for pressurization. The Machen J2BD powered Superstar II's have the wing root intercooler + cowl flaps and the Machen Superstar 650, Superstar 680 (the aircraft for sale), Superstar 700 (my airplane) and Superstar I have wing root intercoolers without cowl flaps. These do not have the have the separate opening in the wing root fairing and the embedded intercooler does double duty...intercooling and bleed air cooling.

The 2nd generation Machen intercooler installations are under the engines like yours.

The 3rd type of intercooler installation is the only factory intercooled model, the Piper 700P...only 25 were built and these vent the cooler through the upper rear engine cowl.

I've attached a pic of mine, which is 4 serial numbers apart from the plane for sale.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2022, 10:53 
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Btw...there's ALWAYS something cool that comes up when discussing Aerostar's. I asked Jim Christy about cooling air induction placement once and he referred me to the De Havilland Mosquito. It has all three...under the prop, under the cowl and in the wing root.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2022, 15:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
I’ve never seen that one below the wing leading edge inside of the nacelle. I don't see it mentioned in the Aerostar Owners Association Manual either under any of the various models. Maybe there are 3 different intercooler installations.

It's not a maybe Joe.

The original 601B (turbo normalized, non-pressurized), 601P (turbo normalized, pressurized) and Piper Sequoya/602P (Low compression turbocharged, pressurized) have clean cowls and no intercooling. The 601P and 602P have the ovoid opening to cool the bleed air for pressurization. The Machen J2BD powered Superstar II's have the wing root intercooler + cowl flaps and the Machen Superstar 650, Superstar 680 (the aircraft for sale), Superstar 700 (my airplane) and Superstar I have wing root intercoolers without cowl flaps. These do not have the have the separate opening in the wing root fairing and the embedded intercooler does double duty...intercooling and bleed air cooling.

The 2nd generation Machen intercooler installations are under the engines like yours.

The 3rd type of intercooler installation is the only factory intercooled model, the Piper 700P...only 25 were built and these vent the cooler through the upper rear engine cowl.

I've attached a pic of mine, which is 4 serial numbers apart from the plane for sale.


Don’t forget the Merlyn airplanes, their intercooler was different as well, so technically 4 types. :hammer:

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2022, 15:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Don’t forget the Merlyn airplanes, their intercooler was different as well, so technically 4 types. :hammer:

Haha, damn. I knew I forgot something. :rofl:

I'm told that it's an efficient design but murder to work on.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2022, 16:23 
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JTK. You obviously didnt read my last post completely acknowledging that 3rd set up just before you posted again.

So the ones with the scoop under the wing inside of the engine nacelle have both an intercooler for intake and the bleed air cooler? Was the bleed air cooler from the wing root relocated to that double duty scoop?

Anyway, that Merlyn is a 4th? Who did that mod? I have never seen that either. How many STCs do these airframes have?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179,000
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 22:19 
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 Post subject: Re: FS: *Pending*1976 Ted Smith Piper Aerostar 601P/680 $179
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2022, 22:20 
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