05 May 2025, 10:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL94? Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 12:27 |
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Joined: 03/03/14 Posts: 125 Post Likes: +69 Location: Palo Alto, CA
Aircraft: MU2, R44, CE525
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Mission: I recently traded our Berkut for an MU-2, which is our family dream airplane. I do miss the fun of maneuvering flying. And the Mu doesn't make much sense to fly by myself for short trips. For example, about twelve times a year I fly by myself from KPAO-KSMO for a meeting, and KSMO has ridiculous fees for turbines. I'd love there to be less friction to go to fly-ins or go fly see local friends for lunch. I don't expect to reach the Berkut's 215kts at 8.5 gph, but want to optimize for both as much as practical. Some friends are interested in my putting together a partnership for us to own a small airplane to be based at KPAO. The goal is to create a social club. We'll make the hangar comfortable and install a bar. We'll likely share the hangar with an R44/R66 helicopter I'm also putting a partnership together for. For the airplane, I think something that can run UL94 would be attractive. I realize we'll take a hit on performance, but two benefits: we could buy our own gas, and insurance against the risk of a local 100LL ban or price hike (already imminent at our neighbor KRHV). Two seats okay. Tailwheel okay, though a tricycle would make the partnership more accessible. Doesn't have to be a bush plane since we'll have the helicopter for camping. Experimental okay, but I prefer a certified airplane to reduce the time involved managing maintenance. Would love to hear your ideas. 
_________________ Mentor/instructor in CE-525, CE-510, MU-2 (SFAR), helicopters
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 12:33 |
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Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 9991 Post Likes: +7039 Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
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For 94UL, look for Lyco 260 powered airplanes. Since you have EX-AB experience, maybe an RV10.
The 260 Commanche came to mind, too.
If you want to drop down to lower octane, the Debonair with the IO-470-K is a fit. I get 145 KTAS LOP @ 10-12 GPH. Faster if I want to push more fuel through it. I think there are some Debs that might even do a little better.
Just saw you said 2 seats OK. Hmmm, I need to think about this one... fast, 2 seat, trike, 94ul, certified is an interesting combination.
I might start by Googling the recent news about Lycoming and unleaded approvals and see what comes up.
One more edit, making some assumptions about your resources, check out the Pipistrel Panthera.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 15:40 |
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Joined: 01/09/14 Posts: 247 Post Likes: +120 Location: San Jose, CA (KSJC)
Aircraft: DA40
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Username Protected wrote: I can't figure out whether the DA40 is UL94 capable or not. Yes, the DA40-180 is UL94 capable.
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 16:12 |
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Joined: 03/03/14 Posts: 125 Post Likes: +69 Location: Palo Alto, CA
Aircraft: MU2, R44, CE525
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Some great suggestions.
Love Beech and a UL-capable Deb would have great control feel.
Panthera is certainly possible, would alter the makeup of the partnership to skew more tech founders.
If experimental, the obvious answer is an RV8. Is there anything in the certified world that approaches the fuel flow and speed of the RV8?
_________________ Mentor/instructor in CE-525, CE-510, MU-2 (SFAR), helicopters
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 17:27 |
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Joined: 03/03/14 Posts: 125 Post Likes: +69 Location: Palo Alto, CA
Aircraft: MU2, R44, CE525
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Username Protected wrote: What I WOULD worry about was the PRC fuel tank sealer. I thought that UL94 was ethanol-free. Wouldn't it be the same for the tank sealer as 100LL? I may be missing something.
_________________ Mentor/instructor in CE-525, CE-510, MU-2 (SFAR), helicopters
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 19:12 |
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Joined: 10/05/11 Posts: 9991 Post Likes: +7039 Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
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Username Protected wrote: I thought that UL94 was ethanol-free. Wouldn't it be the same for the tank sealer as 100LL? I may be missing something. Highest octane readily available pump gas from the corner station is not always ethanol free. It depends on the location. For example, here in Milwaukee it contains Ethanol. An hour away in other counties, it does not. UL94 or 91 from an airport should be Ethanol free. Guys who buy from auto gas stations recommend always checking for Ethanol. If I did not have easy on-airport access to MoGas (short hop from MKE to 02C), I would not be as enamored with my IO-470-K. The effort to transport your own gas is a bit of a PITA depending upon how much you fly. I've always thought this was super smart, but I am not sure if I would want to do this all the time. https://www.csobeech.com/FuelTransferSystem.html
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 19:49 |
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Joined: 12/07/17 Posts: 6976 Post Likes: +5868 Company: Malco Power Design Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
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You just described an early model Mooney.
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 08 Jan 2022, 21:31 |
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Joined: 03/12/18 Posts: 551 Post Likes: +182 Location: Platte Valley 18V
Aircraft: M20S Screaming Eagle
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As joel stated, an older mooney. An M20C is on the list of approved aircraft for ul94. Basic johnson bar gear, bulletproof O360 engine, and great economy. Pretty sure most people fly them at 8 to 10 gph doing 140 to 150 knots. Not as fast as an RV8, but decently cheaper to aquire. I think the vintage mooneys come down to some of the cheapest certified 4 seat planes to fly from a dollar per mile comparison.
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Post subject: Re: What is the fastest/fuel-efficient airplane, supports UL Posted: 09 Jan 2022, 00:33 |
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Joined: 10/18/11 Posts: 1096 Post Likes: +648
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
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the piper Dakota I think has the 260 hp lycoming
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