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13 Aug 2022, 20:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Stevens Aerospace (Banner)



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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2021, 22:57 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Winds were high above fl280 today. Nice to be able to keep it down low and make good speed. On a two hour flight the fuel penalty wasn’t too bad.

Funny how low FL260 feels when you get used to sight picture of the 30s.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 09:36 
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Joined: 04/28/21
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Company: Charwood Partners
Username Protected wrote:
Winds


Wrong thread, Tony.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 20:06 
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Joined: 04/24/18
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
Winds were high above fl280 today. Nice to be able to keep it down low and make good speed. On a two hour flight the fuel penalty wasn’t too bad.

Funny how low FL260 feels when you get used to sight picture of the 30s.


Nice job riding the barber pole.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2022, 17:41 
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Joined: 02/13/11
Posts: 254
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Location: Austn, TX (KEDC)
Ultra is more comfortable than G36 to me. I am 200cm or 6'7" tall with a 36 inseam. The problem is, while both brands are dead, Mooney is more dead. I remember needing upper stringers, mine corroded. By an absolute miracle, we managed to hit a couple of week window between bankruptcies, when Mooney was open and they sold me new new stringers. The Bo community is just stronger, I think. Didn't they find a way to make new magnesium ruddevators? Mooney community cannot even make new cowls and gear doors.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2022, 22:02 
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Joined: 10/18/11
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Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
my two bits having run several companies is that the operation should be run in a "maintenance" mode and probably never make a new aircraft. there are several aircraft companies out there that are basically taking care of a legacy design. the owners and their employees make a living and have fun but they don't get rich. they need to have parts on hand and be able to do the necessary upgrades as some parts become unavailable.

the problem is that the purchase price to buy the company needs to probably $0 plus some value for inventory to make it cash flow.

My aerostar is in that category where parts are expensive but they are always available so flying an Aerostar is very reliable as it can be always maintained.

these aircraft fill a niche but they cannot compete in the brand new market even though many times they are superior to new. they will never sell the volume required to get to profitability when competing with Cirrus for example. small volumes of aircraft are very expensive to manufacture compared to a company building 500+per year.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 11:26 
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Joined: 02/28/12
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Company: CiES Inc
Location: Bend OR
$4M in parts per year jibes with what I discussed a while ago with some former Mooney execs.

To get there all of the factory really needs to be operational - or a very flexible workforce
as parts need to be fabricated on a relatively vertical manufacturing system distributed over a large footprint.

Lots of space and people to net $4M per year maybe 7% profit so a rough order of $250K profit per year. Factor in the real estate and very old tooling/equipment $5M seems to be reasonable ask and you get a type certificate maybe 3 of them.

The trainer is a non-starter

STC's and mods to legacy may net you an additional $3M to $5M per year in revenue but that will diminish with fleet aging which will be significant. So you might recoup your investment over time. 20 yrs ago they were building maybe 40 Aircraft a year - so not a sustainable fleet.

Cirrus updates represent a far better business proposition.

As has been stated, if you have made your fortune, want to be energized, and need to write off a significant portion of your hobby - here's your red carpet


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 18:22 
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Joined: 05/03/12
Posts: 1909
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Location: Wichita, KS
Aircraft: Mooney 201
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As has been stated, if you have made your fortune, want to be energized, and need to write off a significant portion of your hobby - here's your red carpet


that's my plan as I soon as I hit a >$100MM lottery! :D I agree with the rest of your assessment, even as a life-long Mooney fan.

I would also try to buy the TTx TC/IP from Textron and re-launch it (with some improvements) as a Mooney product built in TX, while continuing to support the legacy M20 fleet with parts and update kits. Perhaps pick up aerostructures subcontracting jobs to fill up the factory and keep a bigger workforce engaged full-time as well. IMO, there are a few avenues to breathe new life into the plant and the brand, even if the M20 is near the end of life as a new production product. Mooney has some improvements that would help tremendously ready to go, but it will be up to the next owner to execute.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 21:07 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 846
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Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
when you look at a legacy business you really need to do a big spread sheet and look at al the brands and where they fit into the big market.

there are brands like champion that seem to have found anich where its aircraft really fit and the cost to maintain them is worth it.

Aerostar is another case. It is big , fast pressurized deiced and a real traveling machine, there are several other aircraft in the piston heavy twin but none that really have its set of attributes that really set it apart and it is purchased by a group of buyers that can afford the cost to have parts always available and the costs to do the occasional necessary upgrade . It works well as a reasonable personal owner flown business aircraft and thus has a utility use.

some like the Cessna 206. 182,etc have a huge installed base and are part of a complete product line in production. they fill a cost performance niche that is hard for others to compete with. and many of them are working aircraft where they are earning their keep, hauling people, training etc. having a utility use is a very good way for an owner to justify the cost involved.

so we really need to look at the Mooney line and see if there are area's where it is the best and people will pay what is necessary to keep it running.

looking at all the appropriate brands in the Mooney class and comparing their strengths and weaknesses and the probable customer and the size of his checkbook will really define if there is a good future for the family.

I personally have difficulty making that case although I really like it as an aircraft, I have made the decision to purchase other aircraft over my life time. which tells me something about its comparative usefulness.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney For Sale ...... Again
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2022, 21:12 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 846
Post Likes: +460
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
when you look at a legacy business you really need to do a big spread sheet and look at al the brands and where they fit into the big market.

there are brands like champion that seem to have found a nich where its aircraft really fit and the cost to maintain them is worth it.

Aerostar is another case. It is big , fast pressurized deiced and a real traveling machine, there are several other aircraft in the piston heavy twin but none that really have its set of attributes that really set it apart and it is purchased by a group of buyers that can afford the cost to have parts always available and the costs to do the occasional necessary upgrade . It works well as a reasonable personal owner flown business aircraft and thus has a utility use.

some like the Cessna 206. 182,etc have a huge installed base and are part of a complete product line in production. they fill a cost performance niche that is hard for others to compete with. and many of them are working aircraft where they are earning their keep, hauling people, training etc. having a utility use is a very good way for an owner to justify the cost involved.

so we really need to look at the Mooney line and see if there are area's where it is the best and people will pay what is necessary to keep it running.

looking at all the appropriate brands in the Mooney class and comparing their strengths and weaknesses and the probable customer and the size of his checkbook will really define if there is a good future for the family.

I personally have difficulty making that case although I really like it as an aircraft, I have made the decision to purchase other aircraft over my life time. which tells me something about its comparative usefulness.


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