This source says it was the wing that was beefed up to match the Meridian. Not the tail. Not sure how reliable Wikipedia is but at least they cite their sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46

Maybe a $1M Jetprop should be part of the discussion as well.
https://flycasey.com/1999-jetprop/

There was one posted a few years ago that had a full fuel payload of -50 lbs...

This source says it was the wing that was beefed up to match the Meridian. Not the tail. Not sure how reliable Wikipedia is but at least they cite their sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46

Israel

I saw .60 on our trip from Florida. Saw .52 on a trip last week.

Mike

Ok Mike, you win. No need for a personal attack. We bought our first 550 around 1989. I own two part 145 repair stations, one of which has supported Citations including legacy models for 14 years. The FAA requires training, current manuals, and tooling. Personally I hold the 525S and 500 type ratings, though not current in them since 2017. I love Citations. I would like to own and operate one again soon.

I come here for the aviation entertainment, camaraderie, and education. I don’t come here to sell anything. So while I would love to own one, it is only my personal experience plus that of operator friends current and past which have taught me that there is no free lunch in aviation. Good on you if you can support one for the cost of a Piper Meridian. I’ve spent near $20k on recurrent, a CAMP subscription and a tank of fuel BWTFDIK? And that’s all I’m going to say about it.

Meanwhile, where’s that thread about a TBM vs a Meridian?

Israel, if I did my own spreadsheet it would be free. Perfectly legal and potentially more informative. What is your time worth? Sierra, FlightDocs, Cescom, that’s another thread. I get the volumes you’re speaking but I didn’t mention any details regarding how I maintained anything. But since you bring it up, I suppose I would ask you what recommendations do you use? What inspection program? How exactly do you cut “2-4x” with maintenance shortcuts and with what data? Do you expect “2-4x” less reliability? Do your shortcuts give you equal or better safety compared to the factory recommendations and with what data? Do you have your own AAIP? Do you use parts from eBay without 8130’s? Do you expect the same dispatch as a legacy plane maintained by the recommendations with or without a LUIP? How does that affect resale?

I really don’t know I’m always trying to figure out, like all of us I hope, how to get the max enjoyment for my money. At the same time, I want any plane I own/fly to be the best I can make it. I want to give myself the best chance of survival, not wish my Craigslist Attitude gyro works in the dark of the night on an approach to minimums in the ice in the mountains

But how about that Meridian fuel efficiency!? Makes me want one or a Jetprop! How can I put an aux tank on a Meridian?

Israel, if I did my own spreadsheet it would be free. Perfectly legal and potentially more informative. What is your time worth? Sierra, FlightDocs, Cescom, that’s another thread. I get the volumes you’re speaking but I didn’t mention any details regarding how I maintained anything. But since you bring it up, I suppose I would ask you what recommendations do you use? What inspection program? How exactly do you cut “2-4x” with maintenance shortcuts and with what data? Do you expect “2-4x” less reliability? Do your shortcuts give you equal or better safety compared to the factory recommendations and with what data? Do you have your own AAIP? Do you use parts from eBay without 8130’s? Do you expect the same dispatch as a legacy plane maintained by the recommendations with or without a LUIP? How does that affect resale?

I really don’t know I’m always trying to figure out, like all of us I hope, how to get the max enjoyment for my money. At the same time, I want any plane I own/fly to be the best I can make it. I want to give myself the best chance of survival, not wish my Craigslist Attitude gyro works in the dark of the night on an approach to minimums in the ice in the mountains

Yes the wing got a beefed uspar and the meridian tail is 38% larger (my mistake)[/quote]

There are quite a few differences in the Malibu, pre 99 Mirage, 99 Mirage, Meridian and the M600. Notably differences in the Meridian over the Mirage include thicker wing skins which provide more strength with the monocoque construction, and as you mentioned the tail is about 33% larger iirc. The empty weight of the Meridian is quite a bit more than the Mirage in spite of the engine being about half the weight of the lycoming. So that is a good bit of additional beef in the plane. The M600 is again a good bit heavier than the M500.

You can't.

The figure was only for mainteance.


Correct.


Dang.

For my Citation V, I have zero in type, $900K hull, $2M liability, $17,850. This allows me to fly solo once I have 50 hours mentoring and pass SPE course (both of which have been accomplished).

Is there some reason your insurance in a 441 would be extraordinary or is insurance just that high for that type? I think the 441 is the nicest turboprop flying and would be on my shopping list if I need to downgrade from the V, but those insurance rates are kind of a bummer.

Mike C.

Dang.

For my Citation V, I have zero in type, $900K hull, $2M liability, $17,850. This allows me to fly solo once I have 50 hours mentoring and pass SPE course (both of which have been accomplished).

Is there some reason your insurance in a 441 would be extraordinary or is insurance just that high for that type? I think the 441 is the nicest turboprop flying and would be on my shopping list if I need to downgrade from the V, but those insurance rates are kind of a bummer.

Mike C.

In this market, one never knows.

I'd be curious what your mentoring time requirements were for a 0 turbine pilot.


441 is a great airplane.

Only real negative is that it is a bit too lightly built, maybe even a bit "flimsy". Upside is it is light weight for its size, downside is not quite as robust as one would like. My MU2 had 1000 lbs more aluminum in it and it was SMALLER, but that is definitely at the opposite end of the spectrum, too beefy really.

I think RVSM isn't worth it on the 441. If you have a tailwind, FL280 is just fine and you have the range. If you have a headwind, going to FL350 will make it worse, so your range doesn't really increase that much. It basically helps on the still air days, which are rare.

Mike C.

Yes, but you still have to be careful around thunderstorms...

Israel, if I did my own spreadsheet it would be free. Perfectly legal and potentially more informative. What is your time worth? Sierra, FlightDocs, Cescom, that’s another thread. I get the volumes you’re speaking but I didn’t mention any details regarding how I maintained anything. But since you bring it up, I suppose I would ask you what recommendations do you use? What inspection program? How exactly do you cut “2-4x” with maintenance shortcuts and with what data? Do you expect “2-4x” less reliability? Do your shortcuts give you equal or better safety compared to the factory recommendations and with what data? Do you have your own AAIP? Do you use parts from eBay without 8130’s? Do you expect the same dispatch as a legacy plane maintained by the recommendations with or without a LUIP? How does that affect resale?

I really don’t know I’m always trying to figure out, like all of us I hope, how to get the max enjoyment for my money. At the same time, I want any plane I own/fly to be the best I can make it. I want to give myself the best chance of survival, not wish my Craigslist Attitude gyro works in the dark of the night on an approach to minimums in the ice in the mountains

But how about that Meridian fuel efficiency!? Makes me want one or a Jetprop! How can I put an aux tank on a Meridian?

Repost for clarity