i’m looking at older aztecs ‘60 models. Has anyone had any experience with these airplanes ?

What would you like to know? We had a 1964 C for a really long time. Annuals ran between 8 and 15K most years depending on squawks. Flew around 125 hours annually in it. Make sure to get new fuel caps and watch the fuel bladders for water. Eagle makes replacement bladders that are really good if you need new ones. Water seeping in through the old style fuel caps is a known issue. Get the cowling mod done- your mechanic will thank you. The speed slope windshield is another good mod. Burns around 25 GPH on short hops, better if you’re going cross country.

cowling mod? can you elaborate? my mechanic would be very interested?

Here you go http://aztecnomad.com/stc-approvals/

The 60/61/62/63 models have a completely different cowling with augmentor tubes.

They are the lightest and best handling of all of the Aztecs. The biggest draw backs are only five seats, no nose baggage compartment and little aft baggage space on the 60/61 models.

The carbureted engines are bullet proof.

You can install a Nyack or Miler Nose extension with baggage and aft baggage extension in the early ones. I have all of the above if needed. The 62/63 have 6 seats, nose baggage and larger aft baggage.

I had about 1500 hours in a 74 E, and 76 F model, and a few years later took an ATP checkride in a C model. It was surprising how much nicer the C flew than the E and F. It flew more like an Apache... Which as we all know, "Flies like a Cub"

Why get an Aztruck when you could own a twin bonanza.

Is it OK to put in a good word for the Geronimo? Sweetest handling of the PA23 tribe, 155KTAS and bullet proof engines.

There is something about the Geronimo climbing out at 2000 fpm, with very nice SE manners which makes it a bit of a sleeper. They are usually priced at around 50% of a Twinkie for no obvious reason.

They might not have the load carrying of the Aztruck, or the FIKI option, but otherwise are excellent personal twins.

Certainly is OK.. I flew several hours in 2 different Geronimos, one turbo. They were camera ships for a photogrammetry company. Light controls, yet stable on instruments. Not as "nimble" as a Baron though. I saw one recently (well 6 years ago) in Mt Pocono, PA., it looked the same as it did 35 years prior. N3494B, the other one 3230P not registered.

Well……. I have an Aztec and my Hangar won’t fit a TBone. But I’m working on that.

Aztec has done really nice job for our family in our 2 years. Seems like tbone would be everything we like about Aztec just supersized.

Norm...I've always drooled over your 'G' model conversion. Just awesome.

Didn't you re-jigger the cowls on that?

Also, on a side question (sorry for thread drift). What is your opinion on flap gap seals for the 'Truck'? Worth the $ and weight?

My '78 is turbo and pretty well loaded to the gills. Bang for my buck, it cant be beaten for what i need and where i fly in the wet & icy mountain west.

Mark

Here is a link to an old ad that has pictures of my cowl mods:

https://motoplaneparts.com/piper/

The camlok joint that I added forward of the cowl flaps is essentially the same as the Nomad mod that Dave subsequently got an STC for. I had accomplished mine on a one time field approval and shared the concept with him. I used to sell Dave all my Turbo nose bowls as they have larger inlets that were needed for the slower float planes he produced. I made my own carbon fiber nose bowls with the same dimensions as the turbo models but I changed the design to split them horizontally with better fasteners rather than the ridiculous vertical and curved piano hinge that Piper came up with. I think that was the worst feature on an Aztec

Mine had gap seals that came with the Robertson STOL kit that I installed. I don’t know if they are available as a stand alone STC. In my opinion the Robertson kit is not worth the effort due to its complexity as the aircraft already has respectable short field performance. I also didn’t like the rudder feel after the servo tab was converted to anti servo. This was done for added deflection to bring Vmc closer to the lower stall speed. I think that theoretically one could get the same effect by using the trim tab if their leg was strong enough. Diamond Air offers stand alone flap gap seals for the Apache and they certainly would fit as the wing and flap system is essentially the same. John acquired that STC with the Seguin Geronimo package. If he hasn’t yet he should extend the STC to the Aztecs.

unfortunately not possible for the Turbo Aztec

There are many benefits to the older models. Crazy high useful loads, up to 2100 pounds. Carbureted engines from 1960-1963 if you are doing flight training and don't want to deal with fuel injected hot starts. Also consider the Apache 235, which is simply an Aztec with low compression pistons, to use 80 octane fuel. Change the pistons to the higher compression ones if you want, and now you have an Aztec. Piper made 119 of them, about 29 survive on the US registry.

I have a well modified Apache 235 (upgraded to the Aztec engine configuration, and six place interior) that is probably the fastest and best equipped old PA23 on the planet. Great planes, simple systems, rugged airframes, no expensive parts, bulletproof Lycoming engines, reasonable insurance even for low time guys, low total cost of ownership, fantastic load haulers, and still capable of 175+ knots properly set up.

unfortunately not possible for the Turbo Aztec