Oh, I’m not telling anyone what they should do. Everyone has every right to sell anything (legal) to anyone. If you want to sell a turboprop to a vfr-only pilot with questionable skills, wanting to fly it home, feel free. I may not.

If that same pilot has a qualified pilot to fly it home, great. That speaks volumes. Sold.

Last thing I want to hear about is that the buyer augered-in on the maiden flight. It would make me feel . . . really bad, and . . . guilty.

Ethan

This will be my last reply to the post I started as the OP. I appreciate everyone's comments and was looking for an answer from a Piper, Pilatus or TBM dealer to my question about selling a brand new plane. I understand private owners free to sell to whomever they choose and that is their right to do so.
IMHO, selling a brand new Turbo prop to an individual with little total time, no instrument rating, no insurance and no ability to attend the manufacturer's authorized training program is not right. If the the owner had no intention of flying the plane himself and had hired a pro-pilot fully qualified and who had attended the insurance mandated initial training program that would be a different story and no one would have questioned the purchase. However, this was not the case in a recent incident involving a brand new Piper M600 being flown on the owner's first solo flight. That flight did not end well.

Well said Brian and the right decision.

There were some pretty naïve responses on this thread - well intended but naïve. As a dealer or rep, selling an airplane (or a firearm or a motorcycle) is not the same as selling a TV or a toaster. Those who are in the business where there is a risk element have to weigh that risk.

Hard to lose a sale, but sometimes the most profitable sale (in the long run) is the one you don't make. There was a risk to your business with that one - even before the M600 incident.

Is it too soon to ask.. Is he going to buy another one? Wonder if they will throw in the free fuel program on the 2nd bird?

I guess it was brought up earlier, but the pilot mentioned, had reportedly been flying 50 hours in the M600 with a qualified pilot, until these event seemed to happen on his first flight without the instructor/mentor pilot onboard. I think I am an OK stick, got all my certs and ratings with the minimum hours except for my private where I went 1 hour over, because I didn't plan a required night flight, but no way I would have been ready for an M600 crossing 100 hours TT. It is pretty simple to fly for its capability, but there is still a lot going on compared to a SEP, and a lot of speed and power.

Fair point.

But it’s my understanding that our military puts new pilots in much more sophisticated equipment much sooner. Admittedly it’s a sink or swim environment, but apparently the military has had success with that approach.

Personally - if I couldn’t get it in 50 hours I would recognize that it’s probably wiser to try something else.

Fair point.

But it’s my understanding that our military puts new pilots in much more sophisticated equipment much sooner. Admittedly it’s a sink or swim environment, but apparently the military has had success with that approach.

Personally - if I couldn’t get it in 50 hours I would recognize that it’s probably wiser to try something else.

And they're eighteen.

When I was buying my Saratoga the dealer had a Malibu also for sale. I think at the time I only had 200hrs and no IR. But figured I could get my IR and get the Malibu. The dealer was pretty honest with me and said that was a bad idea. He said he would sell me the Malibu if I was going to buy one but thought the Saratoga was a better fit.

He was right and I took his advice. I was nowhere near ready for a pressurized plane like the PA46.

I got a couple hundred hours in the Saratoga and my IR. Moved up to a Mirage and it was a big jump. I remember thinking I would have killed my self if I had got the Mirage before the Toga.

The dealer was honest but was also in the business of selling planes.

Ironically the guy that did buy that Malibu from the dealer crashed it on take off shortly after he bought it. Haha.

Mike

I'm looking to move up to a used M600 in a couple of years. I have about 1600hrs and am IR. When I moved from a C182 to the Bonanza it was a big step up. I took 25 hours of dual because of the insurance requirement. I definitely needed 20hrs to feel comfortable with the plane and doing approaches. I'm sure I'll need at least that when I move up to a SETP. I won't fly it away after the purchase without an instructor in the right seat.

You'll be fine if you go through the factory training and have a qualified mentor pilot for some period of time. I did that transition (from a Cirrus) at 400 hours - it will all work out.

And the pilot in question with the M600 is pursuing, as I understand it, a variety of legal and PR avenues against Piper because he elected not to purchase insurance and took a big loss. And if memory serves, he's an older gentleman. No knock against older pilots (I'm 61!) but it's not the same as being an 18-22 year old in terms of reaction time, hand/eye coordination, learning speed and retention. I think the military comparison is just not relevant, but that's one man's opinion.

Apparently the pilot in question did have another pilot on board at the time of the incident, a former military pilot with 3000 TT but almost all of that was rotary wing time; and no TIT. But in fairness to the pilot, he wasn't flying solo if what I've heard is correct.

Who didn’t see this original post as a fishing expedition in support of a lawsuit? If you have the money, you have the right to buy an M600, and the dealer should have the right to sell the plane without fear of repercussions from the sale. That’s what makes this country great. There are rules and regulations we comply with for flight. The FAA doesn’t say who can and can’t buy a plane. That’s up to you. We take on that responsibility as PIC when we sit left seat. Clearly the buyer made a series of stupid decisions. That’s his own fault, not the dealer’s, the manufacturer’s, or anyone else’s. Stop trying to screw up the industry and the insurance market with your incompetence and stupidity. Lick you wounds and move on like a man.

Just to clarify the original poster, Brian Cameron, is not the uninsured low time pilot that experienced an excursion.

Thank you Carl for clearing up the confusion with the previous posters reply to my original post.

Nothing to do with the original poster from my perspective. Just plain common sense.



I am sick to death of this lawsuit oriented nanny society. I'm more than willing to let a fool kill himself should he have that desire.

Jg