All of the V’s that we fly have Freon. Not having it would be a show stopper here also

A few didn’t come with freon and it is certainly a show stopper. The ACM just doesn’t cool well enough, especially on the ground.

I’m sure a few people have assumed they all have freon and bought one of the ones who didn’t.

He and I are active on the Citation Jet Pilots forum.

He is seemingly behaving himself.

A good portion of his posts were on his CJ4 toilet. Not kidding.

Mike C.

Yes, that makes it the best legacy Citation, IMO. The Ultra changes things enough that I'll take the slightly reduced performance to enable full Garminization and avoid the higher engine costs.


The GFC 600 would enable Ultras (and Encores) to get fully Garminized since you can then removed the Primus AP integrated into the screens. There is probably $100M in Garmin revenue waiting for them when they get the GFC 600 approved for legacy Citations. Lots of people waiting for this.


Net effect is 1 day and $3K per year, give or take, to maintain SPE over a single pilot airplane.


All Vs I looked at had freon AC despite it being technically an option.

About serial number ~290 or so (which are Ultras), the factory switched from R12 to R134a. There was a kit for R12 planes to be upgraded to R134a, and some did that. This kit is no longer available, so any R12 system is likely to remain that way. It can still be serviced, but you need a shop with the special certification to handle R12.

I actually don't know if my plane is R12 or R134a. I assumed it was R12 and would be happy to find out otherwise. Someday I will find out, I am sure.

Mike C.

He and I are active on the Citation Jet Pilots forum.

He is seemingly behaving himself.

A good portion of his posts were on his CJ4 toilet. Not kidding.

Mike C.

He and I are active on the Citation Jet Pilots forum.

He is seemingly behaving himself.

A good portion of his posts were on his CJ4 toilet. Not kidding.

Mike C.

Congratulations on the new plane!

HT blades are both more expensive and don't last nearly as long.

Full set of HT blades for -5D is $370,000. Used ones are unavailable as the -5D blades are unique to this variant. They tend to last 1.5 OH periods from what I gather. The -5D runs hotter which is how they get more power from it, and that wears out the blades more.

Full set of HT blades for -5A (which, BTW, are the same as many other models) is less than half the -5D blades and they tend to last about double the time, maybe more. There are also a boat load of used -5A blades out there, so you can probably find economical ways to fly without buying brand new ones.

So the HT blades are about 5 times the cost per flight hour on the -5D as the -5A. Net result is about $150/hour JUST FOR HT BLADES on the -5D. Ouch!

I do like the Ultra performance with just that little bit more thrust, but the HT blade issue and the Primus 1000 screen issue are big turn offs to me.

Mike C.

Mike,

Have you completed your type rating yet?

The HT blades in last 5Ds that I did the Hot section on where just fine. 80K for the hot section on both engines.


The military are still overhauling the T1s. They run the 5Ds.

Congratulations Mike! I really like the V. Hope you really enjoy it!

friend w/ultra has the jet tech dual GTN750s and I thought they had an upgrade for his ultra that would put the garmin PFDs of some variety in there.

either way, cool plane with a big cabin. i think all the jets are pretty darn reliable. that said, nothing in GA has the build quality of the mu2 so like everything in aviation you are trading off.

I have been surprised by how much less fatiguing Piaggio is to fly than MU2. I am sure jet will be same for you. On days with a flight and then working it is a significant difference in how I feel.

Can the V go straight to the 40s on hot days or does it need to step climb? When are you going to get Tamaracks for it

i did a similar panel to what you are doing in the piaggio. it's incredible and basically gives you a new airplane. can't wait to see your finished product. the garmin stuff is so good.

He and I are active on the Citation Jet Pilots forum.

He is seemingly behaving himself.

A good portion of his posts were on his CJ4 toilet. Not kidding.

Mike C.

Congratulations Mike!, I am sure you will be happy you made the upgrade. Can’t wait to hear all about it. I have a good friend that is a new instructor for the 560 out here in Carlsbad, CA. I will be curious to here about your training experience.