BeechTalk - BT - PC-24 Grass Field Landing and Takeoff

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 07:54

Username Protected wrote:

The PC-24 has a lighter foot print than the PC-12 (and probably most light jets) due to the dual main tires.

PC-12: 60 psi mains
PC-24: 73 psi mains

So PC-24 is a bit heavier contact pressure than PC-12 but still well below many jets.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 08:42

Username Protected wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAb8BhxI3kQ&feature=youtu.be

I've done that!

Jesus, how many fillings did you lose on that rollout? I used to fly a II and I am pretty sure the struts had about 1/2" of travel on them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 08:52

Username Protected wrote:

I haven’t quoted one yet, we’ve had a few discussions.
I can see this video being a net negative on the insurance front.

Underwriter: “how do I know they aren’t going to do this”.
(Theory being a couple million dollar FOD claim avoidance.)

Idk... maybe that’s a big thing in EU (landing on a shite runway)

Tj

I am a simple man and like simple solutions.
Make the deductible for any FOD damage due to grass runway MUCH higher
Say 100k to 250k deductible...actuaries can figure out the right number.
Owners and insurance companies split the risk...with a slightly higher premium to sweeten pot for insurance companies....easy peasy

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 10:21

Username Protected wrote:

I haven’t quoted one yet, we’ve had a few discussions.
I can see this video being a net negative on the insurance front.

Underwriter: “how do I know they aren’t going to do this”.
(Theory being a couple million dollar FOD claim avoidance.)

Idk... maybe that’s a big thing in EU (landing on a shite runway)

Tj

I am a simple man and like simple solutions.
Make the deductible for any FOD damage due to grass runway MUCH higher
Say 100k to 250k deductible...actuaries can figure out the right number.
Owners and insurance companies split the risk...with a slightly higher premium to sweeten pot for insurance companies....easy peasy

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 10:34

Bigger issue than fod IMO will be using a wet runway or runway with wet spots. One side digs in and before you know it you have a bent wing.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 11:17

Interesting testing & analysis in this clip.

And some great footage.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/QNz4gcf76jE[/youtube]

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 11:25

Username Protected wrote:

PC-12 8,500# / 3 = 2,833#/tire
PC-24 14,000# / 5 = 2,800#/tire

A more accurate comparison would be:

PC-12
8500 - 10% on nose wheel = 7650 #
3825 # per main tire

PC-24
14000 - 10% on nose wheel = 12600 #
3150 # per main tire

The higher tire pressure PC-24 tire will have a significantly smaller contact patch.

The PC-24 runs lower pressure in the nose wheel (58 psi) than the PC-12 (60 psi)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 11:42

Username Protected wrote:

So here are rough numbers but even though the 24 is much heavier than the 12, the outcome to the surface is close to the same.

What matters to the softer surface is not weight per tire, but weight per surface area, or pressure.

In that regard, tire pressure tells the story. The PC-24 will require a somewhat firmer surface to avoid rutting due to higher tire pressure.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2021, 12:54

Username Protected wrote:

I've done that!

Jesus, how many fillings did you lose on that rollout? I used to fly a II and I am pretty sure the struts had about 1/2" of travel on them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 01:58

FOD should not be that big of a problem on a dry grass runway.

Then engines sit pretty high and when it comes to FOD, metal is the real killer not rocks.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 07:32

Username Protected wrote:

Mark, it sounds like you've never been to Triple Tree. The runway is not just manicured like a putting green, it's as smooth as one. Even a Citation can roll out without banging the struts, and yeah, I never understood that design; makes a smooth touchdown a roll of the dice on any surface.

No, I haven't, but the airplane seemed to bounce around a bit in the video. Greasers were pretty rare in that thing. It was my first jet, and there is a bit of fondness because of that fact, but it was not my favorite airplane by a long stretch.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 07:46

PC24 is $10 million. Figure an entity with worth > $100 million might consider it.

There are plenty of people/companies in the world that
1) own farms, ranches, mines, etc that are very productive and value a way to get there
2) Just want a way to reach pretty places without paved runways

You don't buy a PC24 if a Citation does the things you need. Pilatus is going after a new market here and insurance is just part of the package.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 11:39

I wear a five point harness in the 767 and I've about been bounced out of my seat on some paved runways, I can't imagine the ride in a jet on a grass runway. That video shows some pretty good bounces during the takeoff roll..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 11:44

Username Protected wrote:

I wear a five point harness in the 767 and I've about been bounced out of my seat on some paved runways, I can't imagine the ride in a jet on a grass runway. That video shows some pretty good bounces during the takeoff roll..

It was a little bouncy but not terrible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Jan 2021, 14:13

Username Protected wrote:

I can't imagine the ride in a jet on a grass runway.

Grass is not necessarily bumpy.

My brother's 3400 ft grass strip is glass smooth. Best turf runway in all of Kansas.

He rolls it periodically with a surplus asphalt roller.

Mike C.