The value proposition is not what the shops are, it's what they aren't.

I went to this frontier life museum one time. They had a reconstructed pioneer cabin and it had a fenced yard. They pointed out that the fence was to keep things OUT, not keep things in. You did want cows wandering through your vegetable patch.

I'd say the same factor is at play here. The premium shops are known names. They may be rapacious to the current purchaser, but they aren't dangerous to the next one. I share your philosophy of picking shops, but if you're looking through logbooks that might be 5 or 10 years old, trying to sort out what XYZ Aerotech actually did, it can be hard for an average purchaser.

And there are shady people out there who will do shady work. It's a mistake to assume anyone outside the premium fence does shady work ... but that's not the "value". The value is that no one INSIDE the fence does shady work.

The value proposition is not what the shops are, it's what they aren't.

I went to this frontier life museum one time. They had a reconstructed pioneer cabin and it had a fenced yard. They pointed out that the fence was to keep things OUT, not keep things in. You did want cows wandering through your vegetable patch.

I'd say the same factor is at play here. The premium shops are known names. They may be rapacious to the current purchaser, but they aren't dangerous to the next one. I share your philosophy of picking shops, but if you're looking through logbooks that might be 5 or 10 years old, trying to sort out what XYZ Aerotech actually did, it can be hard for an average purchaser.

And there are shady people out there who will do shady work. It's a mistake to assume anyone outside the premium fence does shady work ... but that's not the "value". The value is that no one INSIDE the fence does shady work.

For those who don’t know, a DOF shop or DDOF shop is a Pratt Distributor and Designated Overhaul Facility. The DOF shops do not use PMA parts, which is a different discussion, but PMA parts have caused some real problems over the years. In addition to Pratt parts they will replace anything that will not make it, under normal cycle counts, to the next engine event and usually to the next overhaul. (again I’m not an engine expert, so if it’s to overhaul, someone chime in)

If a non-DOF shop does the overhaul, all bets are off. You could be buying an airplane with engines that turn into pumpkins in 100 cycles even though hots are 1000 hours away.

Many a King Air buyer learned their lesson back in the day buying airplanes with 8000 cycle PT disk.

Good question, I don’t really know, I do know that once they have your engine in pieces you’re at their mercy, which is why we recommend hiring someone.

You certainly are and thinking that Dallas or Standard has you covered because they did the work is simply not factual. Most of the AG guys do their own removal of the hots and someone like Jeff Wiggins (blackfinn aviation) comes in and does the inspection and repair.

Standard Aero, owned by the Carlyle Group. Great PE firm, they're buying all the 'big money' making companies that work on high end stuff, like Lauderdale Marine in Fort Lauderdale.

Dallas Airmotive, owned by none other than BBA, that prestigious company that owns Signature, who along with many other facilities actively campaign against any competition on the field for both fuel and repair.

And then there is Covington, who are a run with a seemingly different mentality, that I have witnessed first hand.

https://www.covingtonaircraft.com/statement-faith

To Adam Silverthorne's point about overhauling to within tolerances and thinking that the 30k HSI is somehow better than the 6k HSI is simply someone without an understanding of what is happening. Go ahead with your bad self and get that stamp of approval for future sales via Dallas or Standard. At least the brokers will be happy.

Any savvy PC12 buyer and good broker, will hopefully enlighten you. Lord knows I've tried.

I came in eyes wide open. Totally understand how much an engine overhaul was. Sean Sanders was my buyers agent. Totally enlightened me to the cost of owning a SETP.

Frankly I've been pleasantly surprised at the overall cost (lower than I expected) and utility of having such a fine airplane.

Chip-

so if a TBM is sold, do you think the buyer will discount the value if the HSI was done at Convington? i.e., does a Dallas HSI carry a sales premium over a shop like Covington?

I thought your posts intimated that HSIs or OHs done by a less well known shop carry less "value" in the market. Yet I don't know if I'm convinced this is true. isn't the HSI done to Pratt's specs, irrespective of who does the work?

When the conversation started I didn’t know Covington was a DDOF... the fact that I didn’t know, points to my assertion that they still have a ways to go to convert their brand and reputation from an excellent AG vendor to a excellent corporate vendor / DOF shop. They are working on it, I see them at the events, including the King Air Gathering, but it takes time.

To answer your question, absolutely do not let a non-DOF shop do an engine event on a TBM, the pedigree is too important. You might find a buyer, but most savvy buyers are going to pass. Not ask for a discount, pass.

As a DOF shop Covington is fine and the more engines they have in the fleet, the better their reputation and acceptance will become. I will say some buyers may have a problem with a Covington engine, you’ll need to educate them, it is up to the owner to decide if saving X is worth the risk that they might lose a buyer.

Covington is making their name in the corporate world, being one of only four DOF shops is a big deal, they pay handsomely for that by the way. If they’re reading this, and they probably are, my advice would be to aggressively go after the TBM and PC12 business, they are much smaller fleets than King Airs and it will be easier to become the go-to shop. Once they’ve done that, the stodgy King Air market will follow!

As I side note, I’d like to see Prime become a DOF, they also do great work and stand behind it.

If we can ask, how much was your overhaul and who did it?

If we can ask, how much was your overhaul and who did it?

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Chip I sure did and was told the high end for the -66D in the 850 I bought would be $350k but could be 240k. In the end your 500+ is more accurate no matter what a service center touts from CA. These prices are P&W numbers from a couple years ago now.

I'm just gathering intel, did they guy who came in after you at Covington pay 30k?

I go to Martin and it is a good shop. I fly down to SNA to go to them even though Mather is a short hop. Mather is good too but much more expensive. I pay similar annuals as you. My guy there is trustworthy mechanic with every Pilatus bonafide you can have. He's not motivated by sales or anything else. I appreciate your datapoint but would like to hear some more. Hopefully more folks will chime in, possibly needs a different thread.

I'm just gathering intel, did they guy who came in after you at Covington pay 30k?

I go to Martin and it is a good shop. I fly down to SNA to go to them even though Mather is a short hop. Mather is good too but much more expensive. I pay similar annuals as you. My guy there is trustworthy mechanic with every Pilatus bonafide you can have. He's not motivated by sales or anything else. I appreciate your datapoint but would like to hear some more. Hopefully more folks will chime in, possibly needs a different thread.

$25K seems expensive to me... My insurance for me flying my M2 single pilot is $21K with $5M smooth for a $3.7M hull.

And just to chime in on the Meridian vs. TBM vs. PC12 since I've owned a Meridian and 2 TBMs... All are great airplanes. I've got about 1,000 hours in a Meridian but that was 2001-2004. I understand the M600 is a lot better and has a G3000, which I have in my M2, and is AWESOME. I think that is a big advantage for the guy asking w/ 1,000 hours and Cirrus time (which means he likely has Garmin experience).

I have even more time in TBMs - I owned a 700 C2 and a TBM850 with a G1000 for 10 years. Great, great airplane. Built significantly better than my Meridian (Can't compare it to the M600 as I don't have experience with the M600). Fast and really fun to fly but also a bit more expensive to maintain.

The Pilatus is an awesome airplane. I've never flown in one but I've ridden in the back. Only downside is that they are slow and the avionics if you value and/or are familiar with Garmin. I'm a Garmin guy and love the situational awareness as I am based in Aspen and fly SP so I just love how easy it is to use.

So I think the answer is this - If you value the cabin and are carrying big loads go with the Pilatus. If you are typically carrying 4 people or less and want the ease and familiarity of the Garmin cockpit get a TBM850 G1000. It will depreciate less than a new M600 and I think the support will be better in Europe because Socata is there.