airframe makes should follow the lead of beech with the nosewheel 18 from the factory. Or GM with the napco 4WD from the factory.

certify the airframe with a bare bones 6-pack and no radios at all. Also minimalist engine instrumentation, preferably a cheapo all-in-one engine gauge that is easy to throw away. Then apply the stuff the customer wants by STC.

Call up textron and order a new C-182.

buying it for fish spotting? maybe you take it as-is.

Buying for personal use ? check a few more boxes on the order sheet.
Joe gets his with a dynon skyview
Amy gets hers with a garmin G3
Hank gets a pair of G5's and an EI CGR-30
Any combo of these installed by STC after the airframe was "complete". None of them linked to the type certificate of the airframe.

That’s kind of already happening. https://www.nextantaerospace.com/
You can also buy a legacy airframe of your choice with timed out engines and outdated or original interior pretty inexpensive. Have the airframe extensively inspected, correct any and all deficiencies and then start upgrading as you choose. It’s pretty much what I have done with my Aerostar. In the end you have one heck of a nice airplane. The down side, it takes a lot of time and patience.

The nice thing about the “Aerostar” is Aerostar Corporation owns the type certificate. All parts and pieces to the Aerostar are available. Many are stock.

Hi Tom,
that's not really what I'm saying. The fundamental problem is the linking of a particular electronics package to the airframe type certificate for new planes. If that link can be broken at the time the plane is sold new then all sorts of opportunities open up.

100% agree mate. If they stick a chute on it, now that's different.

Yeah, I understand. Everything new straight across the board all optioned out. It would be nice.

Why is there this trend of tying avionics to type certificates? Is it planned obsolescence? It doesn't seem to have any advantages for the end user.

Because it is more than just avionics. There are engine instruments, fuel gauges, warning lights, etc...

Ok. So all of those could be just fitted as they always have been - it's not like putting some round dials and lights on an instrument panel is going to cost a lot. Then the user can change avionics as they wish, and most importantly, upgrade when relevant.

Ok. So all of those could be just fitted as they always have been

Have you sat in the back of an Acclaim? Bigger than you think. I regularly flew with 4 adults in my 201. They ain't as little as everyone claims. Just ain't the truth.

Add a chute to the fastest piston airplane and I'll stick with my number.

My guess is a flat panel display like the G3X and Engine monitoring box like the EIS interface to it probably have a manufacturing cost lower than a full set of round gauges. The fancy electronics are not the primary place where the costs have crept into the new airplanes..

Experimental G5: 1289
G3X: 2995+1500 (7" display + standard LRU kit) = $4500 (also includes most of an autopilot)

Round gauges:

Altimeter 1365
Airspeed 229
Horizion 675
Compass 175
HSI 8500 (or CDI:1995)
T+B 526
Rate of climb 341
Vacuum pump 415

$5722 without HSI.
It will also cost more to install the many round gauges that the
2 or 3 components of the G3X system.

The cost lies elsewhere...
EPS spent 16 years trying to bring a clean sheet new engine to aviation.
They just filed for bankruptcy after spending may many (hudred of ?) millions of $
They claim they are still $15M short of delivering their first new engine...

Lets try a new IO-540 without core $87,000
(This is 1950's technology)
If the volume was there is shouldn't cost much more then a modern auto engine...
(Big block crate motor is way less than 10K)


imho:
Low volumes -> high prices -> lower volumes -> higher prices.....
Regulation costs are spread across smaller number of units.
Legal liability has a real cost.

Cessna has produced 44,000 172s from 1956 to now...
Honda sold 365,000 civics in just 2019
You can buy a new civic for <$25K.

IF we could sell 365,000 172's a year then the price should be similar to a new civic...

Long and short of this thread:

The Diamond 50 RG will have very limited acceptance. Anybody want to bet a tank of avgas it is not in, or will be out of production in less than three years?

Jg

Consider this a bet.

Specify “tank”. Are we talking J3 or DC3?

I think it will still be “in production” in 3 years even if they are only making one or two a year. It will take longer than that for an official throwing in of the towel.

If it was only going to be sold and marketed in the US, that would be a good bet. But....