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11 May 2025, 00:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 13:47 
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Joined: 11/22/12
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One pilot pulling, one pushing, neither aware of the other.
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/pil ... 44.article


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 14:13 
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Same thing that killed a bunch of folks on that Air France 380 a few years ago in the S Atlantic

RAS


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 14:44 
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This time of accident seems unique to Airbus. Is it even possible on any other civilian plane for both pilots to be manipulating controls unaware of what the other is doing? And the system pays attention to both?


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 15:50 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
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I got to play in the cockpit of a Gulfstream G500 (sadly, only in the hangar) a couple years ago. The sidesticks have force feedback and are interlinked electronically. So move one and the other pilot feels it.


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 17:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
I got to play in the cockpit of a Gulfstream G500 (sadly, only in the hangar) a couple years ago. The sidesticks have force feedback and are interlinked electronically. So move one and the other pilot feels it.


That's because Gulfstream is The World's Premier Intercontinental Business Jet. :bow:


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 18:51 
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Airbus flight control computer logic provides a loud aural voice alert “DUAL INPUT! DUAL INPUT!” whenever it detects simultaneous control input from both side sticks. The flight control computer can never “do nothing” so if dual inputs are present it will “sum” the two inputs and move the flight controls to that calculated position. Full up + full down = zero pitch change.
The audible voice warning is at the same or higher volume as all other voice warnings including the TCAS RA voice alerts. I am unaware which, if either, voice alert has priority or if one alert may inhibit the other. From 7 years of A320 flight simulator instruction and +/- 6000 hours of instruction given I would guess that “DUAL INPUT! DUAL INPUT” would have priority over the RA voice alerts.
The Airbus voice alerts are VERY hard to miss or ignore but fear and helmet fires can make us miss “obvious” things.
My position? It wasn’t the aircrafts fault.

The Gulfstream G500/600/700 solution is the gold standard. The G650 is fly by wire (via computer) however Gulfstream engineers equipped it with interconnected dual yokes for precisely this reason. PM would know exactly what PF was doing with the yoke.


Username Protected wrote:
This time of accident seems unique to Airbus. Is it even possible on any other civilian plane for both pilots to be manipulating controls unaware of what the other is doing? And the system pays attention to both?


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 21:35 
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Joined: 10/24/17
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Location: KVGT
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I have 15 years and over 8,000 hrs flying the Airbus 320/319. The only time I heard "dual input" was in the simulator when it was demoed...

Kind of like the Atlas Air crash....Not the planes fault.


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2020, 23:40 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
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IMO, you can put the Boeing 737 MAX right in there with those other planes that would have flown well were it not for what was happening up front.

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Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2020, 09:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not the planes fault.
Perhaps not the plane's, but the designers. They introduced a new failure mode, never before on any other airplane, and rather than prevent it, as Gulfstream did, they just added another warning.


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2020, 11:18 
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Joined: 01/23/13
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Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
The article says the control system sums the two inputs. I guess it assumes the truth lies somewhere in the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2020, 11:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Same thing that killed a bunch of folks on that Air France 380 a few years ago in the S Atlantic
Nit: Air France 447 was an Airbus 330.


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 Post subject: Re: A320 control conflict
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2020, 12:03 
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Joined: 08/28/11
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Username Protected wrote:
This time of accident seems unique to Airbus. Is it even possible on any other civilian plane for both pilots to be manipulating controls unaware of what the other is doing? And the system pays attention to both?


In addition the Captain can override by pressing his “red button” on the stick.

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