15 Nov 2025, 18:54 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
| Username Protected |
Message |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die  Posted: 20 Jun 2020, 19:09 |
|
 |
|
|
Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3724
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Wow, he didn’t have a fuel shutoff.  Let’s put it in the worst out of sight place we can. Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat. It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
With that kind of routing, best you could probably do is reaching back behind you on the spar carry-through like the gear crank on a Bonanza/Baron?
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 Jun 2020, 19:50 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 05/01/14
Posts: 9745
Post Likes: +16665
Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Latest video ... not keen about how poorly the cables (mis)align and ride the sides of the pulleys. Then there is the new safety wire installation - WTH? I thought about several things I could say, but his insanity has me speechless. Who would buy this Rube Goldberg kit? It’s going to take 15,000 hours to build, and then it will need 100 hours of maintenance after each hour of flight.
_________________
Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar.
Flight suits = superior knowledge
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 Jun 2020, 20:08 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 14721
Post Likes: +16853
Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Latest video ... not keen about how poorly the cables (mis)align and ride the sides of the pulleys. Then there is the new safety wire installation - WTH? I thought about several things I could say, but his insanity has me speechless. Who would buy this Rube Goldberg kit? It’s going to take 15,000 hours to build, and then it will need 100 hours of maintenance after each hour of flight.
I consider your observations to be important safety features.
_________________
Holoholo …
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 Jun 2020, 21:12 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 07/06/14
Posts: 4062
Post Likes: +2794
Location: MA
Aircraft: C340A; TBM850
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Wow, he didn’t have a fuel shutoff. Let’s put it in the worst out of sight place we can. Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat. It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
The fuel selectors in a twin Cessna are ten feet away from the pilot. You use cables to actuate the valves. I'm sure there are many other planes with similar set ups.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 Jun 2020, 21:19 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/07/18
Posts: 3624
Post Likes: +2587
Company: Retired
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
|
|
Username Protected wrote:
It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
No jets I’ve worked on have fuel lines near the front of the cabin. They all have fuel shutoff valves. It’s not that difficult of a problem to figure out.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 04:17 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/15/16
Posts: 441
Post Likes: +349
Location: NC
Aircraft: Looking for one
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Wow, he didn’t have a fuel shutoff. Let’s put it in the worst out of sight place we can. Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat. It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
That’s a good point. But, with a BRS, I would think that you would want a way to get that fuel shutoff as soon as possible.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 04:30 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/15/16
Posts: 441
Post Likes: +349
Location: NC
Aircraft: Looking for one
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Latest video ... not keen about how poorly the cables (mis)align and ride the sides of the pulleys. Then there is the new safety wire installation - WTH? I thought about several things I could say, but his insanity has me speechless. Who would buy this Rube Goldberg kit? It’s going to take 15,000 hours to build, and then it will need 100 hours of maintenance after each hour of flight.
He’s literally made everything with as many pieces (failure points) as possible. Realistically, how much money do you guys think it would take to get to a production ready model? $8 million.... ASSuming it flies, 3-4 more prototypes? He’s got to fix any aero issues he finds, fix the weight issue, simplify the systems, make it something people can actually build, probably switch engines.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 05:46 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 16902
Post Likes: +28705
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Wow, he didn’t have a fuel shutoff. Let’s put it in the worst out of sight place we can. Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat. It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
Piper seneca fuel valves are out in each wing. The fuel selector lever connects to the valve with a cable. Simple and works fine. Would even be easy to harvest those same parts from a junkyard plane rather than reinventing it.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 05:55 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/01/14
Posts: 9745
Post Likes: +16665
Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Realistically, how much money do you guys think it would take to get to a production ready model? $8 million.... ASSuming it flies, 3-4 more prototypes? He’s got to fix any aero issues he finds, fix the weight issue, simplify the systems, make it something people can actually build, probably switch engines. From what I have seen, no amount of money or time is going to fix the issues as long as Peter is involved. He simply lacks the perspective and judgement necessary to design a kit plane.
_________________
Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar.
Flight suits = superior knowledge
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 08:39 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 02/28/17
Posts: 1352
Post Likes: +1436
Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat.
It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin. That’s a good point. But, with a BRS, I would think that you would want a way to get that fuel shutoff as soon as possible.
I guess. Never thought about the BRS angle.
The Velocity's that have had shutoff's used a cable from the valve to the front of the cabin. IIRC, the primary reason was to be able to select the right of left tank. But since fuel imbalance is not much of a problem, I didn't pursue that. I think a couple have tried routing the fuel lines up front but I don't think none of those ever flew.
Couple people have played around with electrically operated valves that are open without power. Problem there is power is required to close them.
Can it be solved? Absolutely. But just like the Raptor, at additional cost, complexity and weight. Is it worth it? I have no idea. AFAIK, no Velocity has ever crashed because the fuel couldn't be shutoff. So I didn't pursue it.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 08:57 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 35904
Post Likes: +14317
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Wow, he didn’t have a fuel shutoff. Let’s put it in the worst out of sight place we can. Almost no Velocity's have a fuel shutoff accessible from the pilot seat. It's one of the challenges with an airplane that doesn't have any fuel lines near the front of the cabin.
That seems weird. Properly designed and implemented the fire risk of a fuel shutoff accessible to the pilot should be far lower than the risk of an unstoppable fire at the engine.
This sounds a bit like my father in law's concern about house fires which led him to heat the home he built with oil instead of natural gas. Whatever advantage the liquid fuel had over gas was more than overcome by the fact that he build the main plenum which sits on top of the furnace out of plywood.
Even if there's an unshakable desire to eliminate fuel in the cockpit, it's not that difficult to build a remote valve operated by wire rope, a straight rod, or a push pull cable.
_________________
-lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 10:08 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3724
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
|
|
Username Protected wrote:
He’s literally made everything with as many pieces (failure points) as possible. Realistically, how much money do you guys think it would take to get to a production ready model? $8 million.... ASSuming it flies, 3-4 more prototypes? He’s got to fix any aero issues he finds, fix the weight issue, simplify the systems, make it something people can actually build, probably switch engines.
He won't switch engines. You do that, the project dies, it's just that simple. If I want a 4 place avgas piston experimental, I'll buy a Lancair IV-P. This whole thing is for naught without a JetA powerplant. In fact, if someone can figure out the redrive and instead find a way to couple a gearbox to it, the engine would be a great replacement for the Lancair TCM powerplants. Reducing your fuel cost by an easy 40% on contract Jet A has been something many people have wanted for many years, which is why the RED engine and others are gaining traction. Just can't be a $500k+ powerplant. Might as well just get a PT6 and get it over with.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 11:05 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2920
Post Likes: +2895
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
|
|
Username Protected wrote: He won't switch engines. You do that, the project dies, it's just that simple. Yep. Remember, the goal was always to get other people to buy them. He's said that he originally floated the idea with conventional Lyc/TCM engine but nobody was interested. Then he switched to a turboprop but again, nobody was interested. So with any aero engine that actually exists nobody was interested. It was only with this fantasy engine that the deposits flowed in.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 Jun 2020, 11:34 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3724
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
|
|
Username Protected wrote: He won't switch engines. You do that, the project dies, it's just that simple. Yep. Remember, the goal was always to get other people to buy them. He's said that he originally floated the idea with conventional Lyc/TCM engine but nobody was interested. Then he switched to a turboprop but again, nobody was interested. So with any aero engine that actually exists nobody was interested. It was only with this fantasy engine that the deposits flowed in.
I wouldn't call it a fantasy engine. It functions perfectly fine.
People have been putting automotive engines on aircraft for a long time. Heck, back in the 90's people were putting Corvette engines on Queen Airs.
It's the drive that's the issue, along with needing a dual channel FADEC or at least some type of default function with death of the primary computer for the engine to continue running at some kind of minimum power curve to limp somewhere.
Fix those two things and put it on the front of an airplane and you have an immediate winner. I have my eyes on a Lancair IV-P kit that I would buy in a heartbeat if this engine was available with those two issues fixed. 270-280 KTAS on 14-15 gph Jet A for $90-100k instead of 30 gph Walter 601E turboprop. Not to mention I know how to work on an Audi TT Diesel. I don't know jack about a turboprop past basic function.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|
