BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2020, 08:18

Username Protected wrote:

Now,if I could just work out the potty thing... :scratch:

If the people in the plane know each other/are family, then a "short" 5-gal size bucket with a screw top (like what pool chemicals are shipped in) combined with a Walmart toilet seat does the trick for the occasional unexpected need. Fill it with 4" of absorptive Kitty Litter and you have your potty for those longer trips. Leave it on the hat rack.[/quote]
When I took my family to Alaska I put my 6 year old in a garbage bag because he had to “go”...no problem :cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2020, 14:16

I don't think a potty would be necessary for a load of six, because you'd not likely be airborne for more than 1 1/2 hours or so...at least in a 601P loaded legally.

I have some of those travel john bags you can get from Sporty's for longer flights. They don't take up much space, and are relatively simple to use, secure, and dispose.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2020, 14:24

Username Protected wrote:

Two questions for the Aerostar owners and operators -

Can you (and if so, would you) load six adults, three couples, for a short "fun weekend" trip of say 1.5 hours max, including weekend luggage, and min 3.0 hours fuel on board at takeoff? Would you do it in some models and not others? The guys are 195 - 220 lbs; the gals are 120 -150 lbs. It looks to me, in most examples, the useful load would be a bit short.

I see that most operators fly with one of the middle seats out. Just curious if anyone operates occasionally with all six seats in and full.

Second question - How much of a maintenance concern is the J2BD engine with the single turbo compared to the other engine options? Would anyone pass on a Superstar just because of the J2BD?

The J2BD is the downdraft turbo engine and it's regarded as a bit of a maintenance queen. That big single turbo gets too hot and it's so crammed in there that it tends to cook accessories. That said, the J2BD can be very fast. Rigged right, they tend to be the fastest Aerostars.

As for loading 6 people up - it gets pretty cramped. If you want to do it, I'd go for a 700/Superstar with the higher MTWO mod from AAC Inc. Think it increases MTOW with another 850lbs, so then all of sudden you can fill all seats and almost full gas.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2020, 21:14

I've been hearing the downside of the J2BD in the Aerostar for years (20+), but has anyone on here actually owned one or have first hand knowledge of it? That engine is a beast in the Chieftan, but I know this is a completely different application.[/quote]

Stewart - The issue isn't the engine, as you say it's a beast and perfectly reliable. In the Aerostar installation it simply doesn't have enough cooling air to keep the turbo from cooking the accessories and other components. Krueger Aviation in California reputedly worked out most of the bugs with various fixes and kits. I have no first hand knowledge, but several folks I know who would always give any Aerostar the benefit of doubt told me the stories and advised to keep my distance.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2020, 21:48

Username Protected wrote:

I agree Bruce. The ONLY way this aircraft will get bought is if it can seat six adults for short trips. I have to meet that requirement. I have to be able to say, “...and Love, we can take the gang to the Hill Country/New Orleans/Texas A&M games/Padre Island/etc. Happy wife...well you know the rest.

This is why the statement “...you need a 421” doesn’t work for me. It would be great for 5 - 10% of my trips, but overkill for the remaining 90%.

Mike, the good news is you’ll find out who your friends really are when you put 6 adults in an Aerostar

In other news, The bad boy silver, black, and blue 601P with the lime green interior Is taking shape:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Jun 2020, 08:38

True, Bruce.

Fortunately this group of six would think of it as a great adventure and fun, at least for an hour and a half or so!

Thanks all for your replies. I keep going in circles on this aircraft purchase. However, the circle is getting tighter and an Aerostar seems to be at the center of it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Jun 2020, 12:09

Username Protected wrote:

Now,if I could just work out the potty thing... :scratch:

If the people in the plane know each other/are family, then a "short" 5-gal size bucket with a screw top (like what pool chemicals are shipped in) combined with a Walmart toilet seat does the trick for the occasional unexpected need. Fill it with 4" of absorptive Kitty Litter and you have your potty for those longer trips. Leave it on the hat rack.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 11:29

Aerostars do look cool and have a reputation for being extremely fast. I was looking at POH numbers of a 601P vs a baron 58P (both of which I'm vaguely thinking about) and the cruise speeds / fuel burns seem too close to call. Its that people's real world experience?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 15:08

Username Protected wrote:

Aerostars do look cool and have a reputation for being extremely fast. I was looking at POH numbers of a 601P vs a baron 58P (both of which I'm vaguely thinking about) and the cruise speeds / fuel burns seem too close to call. Its that people's real world experience?

Go fly them. Then come back and discuss numbers

Make sure to try an emergency descent or a late drop by ATC. :cheers:

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 21:41

Username Protected wrote:

Stewart,

I used to have a 700. (Well a 602 upgraded to almost everything possible from AAC. When I sold it, there were only two mods I did not have. KFC 225 and Winglets.)

Anyway, with the 700/702 you have a choice. You can run ROP 65% and see ~230 to 235 KTAS in the flight levels (go fast mode) with between 45-50 GPH. I was normally closer to 46. Or you can run closer to 28 GPH LOP at 50% and see ~210-215 KTAS. If going really long range I have pulled power back to 40% or so, at @24 GPH and get 190 KTAS.

Tim

That sounds a bit slow for the 65% number. I have seen several of the faster 700's that would do low 230's KTAS at FL250 at 55%.

I have seen quite a bit of variation from the fastest to the slowest Aerostars that I have owned and operated.

The slowest one I had was a 700 that would do 216 KTAS at FL250 at 55%.

The fastest was a Superstar I - 700 without boots that would do a solid 238-240 KTAS at FL250 at 55%!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 23:00

Guys, what am I missing? I seemed to get 233 KTAS @ FL 190 @ -25c IOAT 24” 2200 rpm 17 gph/side in a wingletted, intercooled 601P running it as 1550 TIT and at the settings Jim Christy told me too (at least I think I did it right). It was basically the same @ FL210.

I haven’t done the airspeed vs. gps calibration check yet. But anyway, if it’s accurate, that’s ridiculous performance. Is there anything within 20 knots on that fuel flow?

With new paint and a couple less antennas, I’m hoping it won’t be slower but I did “unfair” the windshield frame to get rid of a bunch of the filler.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 23:51

I know POH cruise speeds are not always to be trusted.

For the 601P, 20,000', 19.9 GPH/side gives 230ktas, 14.9gph -> 210ktas
for a 58P 20,000', 19.2 GPH/side gives 232 ktas, 14.6gph -> 210ktas

No making any claims about who is lying more, or which is better in other ways.

I was surprised to see that the book numbers were almost identical

Username Protected wrote:

Guys, what am I missing? I seemed to get 233 KTAS @ FL 190 @ -25c IOAT 24” 2200 rpm 17 gph/side in a wingletted, intercooled 601P running it as 1550 TIT and at the settings Jim Christy told me too (at least I think I did it right). It was basically the same @ FL210.

I haven’t done the airspeed vs. gps calibration check yet. But anyway, if it’s accurate, that’s ridiculous performance. Is there anything within 20 knots on that fuel flow?

With new paint and a couple less antennas, I’m hoping it won’t be slower but I did “unfair” the windshield frame to get rid of a bunch of the filler.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jun 2020, 23:55

You're not missing anything
I keep in touch with Don at Aerostar world and he says john, with a 601p, (I have a 700 and a 601p) 235 knots at 35 gph is a number you can take to the bank.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jun 2020, 00:02

Furthermore, you might be wondering, why does a guy own two Aerostars, both a straight 601p and a 700...
Because between the costs of confiscatory taxation and divorces, Aerostars are almost free. Can I get an amen on that? Anyone?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jun 2020, 00:06

That and to misquote mike c, 280 knots will change your life...