My thoughts exactly. There are a handful of narcissistic and confrontational members that enjoy baiting others. They are a huge detraction to everything that is good with BT. I use the Foe option after their objective becomes clear. Works good for me.
I would encourage Jeff & Jeff to exercise the exclusion option more frequently. It will make BT better...

A little passive aggressive going on even here....

But I guess that's better than aggressive aggressive. Although Wendy would argue otherwise....

FWIW, I agree with the sentiment not to punish too hastily and over react with a draconian policy that will yield undesired outcomes and unintended consequences. Continue to handle people on a case by case basis.

Why?

Well, lots of reasons, but I'll call out these 3:

1. BT can help people grow, but that growth is a process that happens with time. It's the unique nature of the forum and the members. It's not measurable, but BT plays a role converting insufferable pilot @$$ holes into kinder, gentler members of society. Be too draconian and this growth can't happen...for those willing and able to grow. No sign of such growth and respect for the rules and of fellow members? Gone.

2. One slip of the tongue/keyboard (or even two) should not get anyone banned, temp or perm. It's just not right. Offering mercy is. Removing mercy and giving offenders the chance to grow is not the hallmark of any human system worth being part of.

3. The boundaries for civility are not sharply defined and easy to police. Sure, the most egregious cases are. But there's lots of grey. So be careful of the burden you place on yourselves as moderators. Personally, I'd rather participate in a forum where the lines can be occasionally crossed and only dealt with when a clear pattern emerges, than one where people hold back or behave in a thin skinned, PC-like manner in the pursuit of some utopian civility standard because they fear being banned.

The issue here is one of consistently dealing with egregious repeat offenders. Your policies and enforcement should focus here.

My 2 cents.

FWIW, I agree with the sentiment not to punish too hastily and over react with a draconian policy that will yield undesired outcomes and unintended consequences. Continue to handle people on a case by case basis.

Why?

Well, lots of reasons, but I'll call out these 3:

1. BT can help people grow, but that growth is a process that happens with time. It's the unique nature of the forum and the members. It's not measurable, but BT plays a role converting insufferable pilot @$$ holes into kinder, gentler members of society. Be too draconian and this growth can't happen...for those willing and able to grow. No sign of such growth and respect for the rules and of fellow members? Gone.

2. One slip of the tongue/keyboard (or even two) should not get anyone banned, temp or perm. It's just not right. Offering mercy is. Removing mercy and giving offenders the chance to grow is not the hallmark of any human system worth being part of.

3. The boundaries for civility are not sharply defined and easy to police. Sure, the most egregious cases are. But there's lots of grey. So be careful of the burden you place on yourselves as moderators. Personally, I'd rather participate in a forum where the lines can be occasionally crossed and only dealt with when a clear pattern emerges, than one where people hold back or behave in a thin skinned, PC-like manner in the pursuit of some utopian civility standard because they fear being banned.

The issue here is one of consistently dealing with egregious repeat offenders. Your policies and enforcement should focus here.

My 2 cents.

Outstanding move Jeff's! I agree with much of the consensus here that you are being a bit hard on yourselves as you've created the best aviation platform and IMO, the best Internet forum I've ever been a part of. I've learned so much on so many topics here that I truly find BT invaluable. So, don't beat yourselves up. Even with the black eyes and occasional bruises, there's nothing like what you've created on the web.

That said, I welcome your more aggressive stance to those who seem to thrive on conflict and throwing daggers. I've said it myself many times that our pilot community is a tiny slice of the population and we should be doing everything we can to support each other rather than tear each other down. I know those who thrive on conflict and I just simply scroll right past their posts. Nobody here is under obligation to read the garbage that everyone posts. However, knowing that you're watching I'm sure will result in a more positive BT experience.

Keep up the fantastic job you've already been doing for many years!

The information and camaraderie available on this forum is irreplaceable. I thank Jeff and Jeff for their work.

Me thinks - ironically - that while politics is currently a very polarized and emotional topic, "political comments" are not want are disappointing Jeffs' at this time. It's personal sniping. While it can be entertaining for many of us - comments usually being more emotional than personal - I see their point as heading down a negative slope.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There should be civility

Things are often grey, rather than black or white.

Respect others rights to disagree (even if they are wrong)

There are way more good things going than less desirable ones.

I would suggest public reprimand rather than censure.

Steve Hake

Why nod public caning. Worked well in Singapore for years until the bleeding hearts took over.

I applaud your ideals and direction, and think you maintain a great website. I just happened on this topic by accident, glad I read it. In general, I think most successful pilots want to follow the “rules”. If there are to be major changes to the terms of service or their enforcement, I know I would’ve liked to have an email letting me know there was a new, kinder and gentler BT world, so as not to inadvertently penetrate “Class BT webspace”, especially by some snarky comment I might think and make. IDK the logistics of sending an email to 60,000 people, but the CBD oil spammers sure seemed to have it figured out.

Some 40 years ago I heard these principles in a talk and they've stuck with me all these years. They might form the basis of a "pre-post" checklist.

1) Is it Kind

Self explanatory, for the most part. A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve dead pilots. There is a tendency to adopt the attitude that we are much better pilots than they were and would have responded much better when faced with the same challenging circumstances. Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

2) Is is Factual

A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve speculation. This is unavoidable because most of the discussion takes place before final reports are released. Being dogmatic in the absence of facts may be a recipe for a spirited discussion, but not necessarily a productive one.

3) Is it Upbuilding

Is it primarily positive? Does it focus on solutions? Does it promote better and safer operations? Aviation in general? And if not, does it really need to be said?

Love it. #1 and #2 are kind of a given, but we need a LOT more of #3.

[FaceBookVideo][/FaceBookVideo]


It’s just like my daddy use to say; If you can’t say something good about someone by golly lets hear it. No,no I don’t think that is quite it.

Nothing to add of any Real Substance?
Jim, You are one of the Fellows that always has something of SUBSTANCE and REAL Value to Add!

Thank You Jim

Good on ya Jeffs. Things changed quickly and it course corrected.

So do friendly comments count? Because I just want to say something we all know.

If Sidney gets out of line suspensions won’t be necessary. Simply deactivate the emoticon buttons.



On the serious side, as a ‘local’ I truly look forward to your posts Sidney. !

I agree with Clinton. Sending this renewed stance out as a message could be beneficial as I also happened upon this thread by accident.

I am in the camp of giving a warning before suspension as sometimes folks do type before they think at times. I also don't like too much censure but we can certainly do without the personal attacks that happen at times.

This is the best forums I have ever joined. Keep up the great work.

-Steve