31 Oct 2024, 19:10 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 13:42 |
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Joined: 08/11/08 Posts: 2941 Post Likes: +1736 Location: Sacramento, CA KLHM
Aircraft: S35, RV-7
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Username Protected wrote: I support this move by Jeff and Jeff.
Three weeks ago I activated the Foe feature.
Two weeks ago I blocked the entire COVID-19 subforum.
Doing those things greatly increased my enjoyment of BT.
There are, unfortunately, a small handful of long-time BTers who troll, who bait, who demean, who seem to be here only to argue.
No matter how long they have been here, that behavior damages the experience for many of us.
BT is a unique place. It has changed my life with new experiences and new friends.
I applaud this active measure to protect it. My thoughts exactly. There are a handful of narcissistic and confrontational members that enjoy baiting others. They are a huge detraction to everything that is good with BT. I use the Foe option after their objective becomes clear. Works good for me. I would encourage Jeff & Jeff to exercise the exclusion option more frequently. It will make BT better...
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 13:58 |
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Joined: 04/16/12 Posts: 7185 Post Likes: +11470 Location: Keller, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: '68 36 (E-19)
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Username Protected wrote: One such decision we came to is that, from this point forward, if you are found to be in violation of the Terms of Service, especially the requirement for civility, your account will be deactivated without warning. Depending on the severity of the violation (and other factors) this may be a temporary or permanent deactivation, which we will take into account on a case-by-case basis. FWIW, I agree with the sentiment not to punish too hastily and over react with a draconian policy that will yield undesired outcomes and unintended consequences. Continue to handle people on a case by case basis. Why? Well, lots of reasons, but I'll call out these 3: 1. BT can help people grow, but that growth is a process that happens with time. It's the unique nature of the forum and the members. It's not measurable, but BT plays a role converting insufferable pilot @$$ holes into kinder, gentler members of society. Be too draconian and this growth can't happen...for those willing and able to grow. No sign of such growth and respect for the rules and of fellow members? Gone. 2. One slip of the tongue/keyboard (or even two) should not get anyone banned, temp or perm. It's just not right. Offering mercy is. Removing mercy and giving offenders the chance to grow is not the hallmark of any human system worth being part of. 3. The boundaries for civility are not sharply defined and easy to police. Sure, the most egregious cases are. But there's lots of grey. So be careful of the burden you place on yourselves as moderators. Personally, I'd rather participate in a forum where the lines can be occasionally crossed and only dealt with when a clear pattern emerges, than one where people hold back or behave in a thin skinned, PC-like manner in the pursuit of some utopian civility standard because they fear being banned. The issue here is one of consistently dealing with egregious repeat offenders. Your policies and enforcement should focus here. My 2 cents.
_________________ Things are rarely what they seem, but they're always exactly what they are.
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 14:53 |
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Joined: 10/04/14 Posts: 1233 Post Likes: +1775 Location: KFRG
Aircraft: Bonanza V35B
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Username Protected wrote: One such decision we came to is that, from this point forward, if you are found to be in violation of the Terms of Service, especially the requirement for civility, your account will be deactivated without warning. Depending on the severity of the violation (and other factors) this may be a temporary or permanent deactivation, which we will take into account on a case-by-case basis. FWIW, I agree with the sentiment not to punish too hastily and over react with a draconian policy that will yield undesired outcomes and unintended consequences. Continue to handle people on a case by case basis. Why? Well, lots of reasons, but I'll call out these 3: 1. BT can help people grow, but that growth is a process that happens with time. It's the unique nature of the forum and the members. It's not measurable, but BT plays a role converting insufferable pilot @$$ holes into kinder, gentler members of society. Be too draconian and this growth can't happen...for those willing and able to grow. No sign of such growth and respect for the rules and of fellow members? Gone. 2. One slip of the tongue/keyboard (or even two) should not get anyone banned, temp or perm. It's just not right. Offering mercy is. Removing mercy and giving offenders the chance to grow is not the hallmark of any human system worth being part of. 3. The boundaries for civility are not sharply defined and easy to police. Sure, the most egregious cases are. But there's lots of grey. So be careful of the burden you place on yourselves as moderators. Personally, I'd rather participate in a forum where the lines can be occasionally crossed and only dealt with when a clear pattern emerges, than one where people hold back or behave in a thin skinned, PC-like manner in the pursuit of some utopian civility standard because they fear being banned. The issue here is one of consistently dealing with egregious repeat offenders. Your policies and enforcement should focus here. My 2 cents.
Problem is this occurs with a small but vocal set of BT'ers. Rudeness is like graffiti. After a while you get used to it and hardly notice it anymore. By that time it's too late.
Last edited on 02 Apr 2020, 08:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 18:06 |
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Joined: 02/15/15 Posts: 1486 Post Likes: +702
Aircraft: 36
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Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There should be civility
Things are often grey, rather than black or white.
Respect others rights to disagree (even if they are wrong)
There are way more good things going than less desirable ones.
I would suggest public reprimand rather than censure.
Steve Hake
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 19:16 |
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Joined: 03/25/12 Posts: 7312 Post Likes: +5195 Location: KCMA - Camarillo, CA
Aircraft: Bonanza G-35
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Username Protected wrote: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There should be civility
Things are often grey, rather than black or white.
Respect others rights to disagree (even if they are wrong)
There are way more good things going than less desirable ones.
I would suggest public reprimand rather than censure.
Steve Hake Why nod public caning. Worked well in Singapore for years until the bleeding hearts took over.
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 21:47 |
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Joined: 03/16/11 Posts: 140 Post Likes: +82 Location: KEOS
Aircraft: A36TN
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I applaud your ideals and direction, and think you maintain a great website. I just happened on this topic by accident, glad I read it. In general, I think most successful pilots want to follow the “rules”. If there are to be major changes to the terms of service or their enforcement, I know I would’ve liked to have an email letting me know there was a new, kinder and gentler BT world, so as not to inadvertently penetrate “Class BT webspace”, especially by some snarky comment I might think and make. IDK the logistics of sending an email to 60,000 people, but the CBD oil spammers sure seemed to have it figured out.
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 23:14 |
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Joined: 04/25/19 Posts: 2985 Post Likes: +2013 Location: Southwest FL
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Some 40 years ago I heard these principles in a talk and they've stuck with me all these years. They might form the basis of a "pre-post" checklist.
1) Is it Kind
Self explanatory, for the most part. A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve dead pilots. There is a tendency to adopt the attitude that we are much better pilots than they were and would have responded much better when faced with the same challenging circumstances. Maybe, but then again, maybe not.
2) Is is Factual
A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve speculation. This is unavoidable because most of the discussion takes place before final reports are released. Being dogmatic in the absence of facts may be a recipe for a spirited discussion, but not necessarily a productive one.
3) Is it Upbuilding
Is it primarily positive? Does it focus on solutions? Does it promote better and safer operations? Aviation in general? And if not, does it really need to be said?
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 01 Apr 2020, 23:39 |
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Joined: 02/02/08 Posts: 1594 Post Likes: +1093 Location: Reading, PA
Aircraft: V35, PA28-180
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Username Protected wrote: Some 40 years ago I heard these principles in a talk and they've stuck with me all these years. They might form the basis of a "pre-post" checklist.
1) Is it Kind
Self explanatory, for the most part. A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve dead pilots. There is a tendency to adopt the attitude that we are much better pilots than they were and would have responded much better when faced with the same challenging circumstances. Maybe, but then again, maybe not.
2) Is is Factual
A lot of discussions on Crash Talk involve speculation. This is unavoidable because most of the discussion takes place before final reports are released. Being dogmatic in the absence of facts may be a recipe for a spirited discussion, but not necessarily a productive one.
3) Is it Upbuilding
Is it primarily positive? Does it focus on solutions? Does it promote better and safer operations? Aviation in general? And if not, does it really need to be said? Love it. #1 and #2 are kind of a given, but we need a LOT more of #3.
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 02 Apr 2020, 00:25 |
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Joined: 10/31/11 Posts: 1047 Post Likes: +679 Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80 Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
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[FaceBookVideo][/FaceBookVideo] It’s just like my daddy use to say; If you can’t say something good about someone by golly lets hear it. No,no I don’t think that is quite it.
_________________ Dan F Indecision is the key to flexibility
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 02 Apr 2020, 01:33 |
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Joined: 11/24/14 Posts: 371 Post Likes: +241 Location: Kirkland, WA
Aircraft: Casually browsing
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Good on ya Jeffs. Things changed quickly and it course corrected. So do friendly comments count? Because I just want to say something we all know. If Sidney gets out of line suspensions won’t be necessary. Simply deactivate the emoticon buttons. On the serious side, as a ‘local’ I truly look forward to your posts Sidney. !
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Post subject: Re: Our Vision for the BeechTalk Community Posted: 02 Apr 2020, 05:16 |
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Joined: 12/09/18 Posts: 1926 Post Likes: +1717 Location: MA
Aircraft: 1972 F33A
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Username Protected wrote: I applaud your ideals and direction, and think you maintain a great website. I just happened on this topic by accident, glad I read it. In general, I think most successful pilots want to follow the “rules”. If there are to be major changes to the terms of service or their enforcement, I know I would’ve liked to have an email letting me know there was a new, kinder and gentler BT world, so as not to inadvertently penetrate “Class BT webspace”, especially by some snarky comment I might think and make. IDK the logistics of sending an email to 60,000 people, but the CBD oil spammers sure seemed to have it figured out. I agree with Clinton. Sending this renewed stance out as a message could be beneficial as I also happened upon this thread by accident. I am in the camp of giving a warning before suspension as sometimes folks do type before they think at times. I also don't like too much censure but we can certainly do without the personal attacks that happen at times. This is the best forums I have ever joined. Keep up the great work. -Steve
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