09 Nov 2025, 18:41 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette  Posted: 20 Nov 2019, 08:17 |
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Joined: 02/22/09
Posts: 2737
Post Likes: +2290
Location: KLOM
Aircraft: J35, L-19, PT17
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Username Protected wrote: A friend and I recently rolled the dice on a Stearman that hadn't flown in 12 years. Fortunately it was stored inside the entire time. I guess it's flown about 3 or 4 hours since we bought it and we've had some issues. The only engine problem so far, and the mechanics are heading to the airport today where we had to park it on Friday, is rough running on the left mag. Hopefully, it's just a plug and they're be able to fly it home this afternoon. I agree with Bob S. If everything else seems reasonable with the plane, you need to buy at a price that can support getting the engine rebuilt or close to it. David, Is that Birddog in your avatar powered by an O470? 
Hi Sidney,
Yes it is. It's very similar to the E-series engines in the early bonanzas. My engine is an E-190. It produces 213HP for take off and 190HP continuously. Unlike the bonanza E-series engines, the E-190 has an oil sump rather than a remote tank. Other than that, I don't think there's much difference. The electrics are 24VDC - not that the engine cares about that.
Dave
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 20 Nov 2019, 08:20 |
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Joined: 02/22/09
Posts: 2737
Post Likes: +2290
Location: KLOM
Aircraft: J35, L-19, PT17
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Username Protected wrote: David, Is that Birddog in your avatar powered by an O470? unless it had an engine upgrade, originally had o-470-11 or -15
Hi Mike,
There's even a -7. I've got a -11. The -15 is setup for a constant speed prop.
There's a lot of variations of these motors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-470
Dave
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 20 Nov 2019, 12:53 |
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Joined: 03/13/18
Posts: 352
Post Likes: +337
Location: KPDK; KSGJ
Aircraft: Piper Mirage
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Sounds like all of the ingredients for a grand waste of time. I would move onto the next candidate.
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 28 Nov 2019, 00:53 |
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Joined: 05/14/11
Posts: 859
Post Likes: +622
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Username Protected wrote: Pull every lifter and look at the cam. Then bore scope the jugs. Then don’t pay too much. So here's another question. My understanding is that you come to an agreement on price prior to the prebuy. How do you not waste your time and money on a prepurchase inspection when the buyer has an unreasonable emotional belief of what the airplane is versus how they actually treated it? If I find corrosion that indicates the need for a top end overhaul on an airplane that's pretty close to being priced what it would be if the engine was overhauled last month, how do I create the wiggle room for downward negotiation?
Been here so many times now that I can't count them anymore. Here's what I've learned in over four decades of buying airplanes.
(1) DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST. Make an offer over the phone that you can assume any risks... and live with it. If the seller won't come down there, go see what you're buying before making a counter offer, or just move on. Your heart will speak if you're too far off. Your gut will tell you if it isn't a good deal.
(2) Go do a full pre-purchase before making any offer, and go from there. With other qualified people in your camp as witness, there'll be less negotiating the obvious necessary in the end.
Any other form of negotiation just breeds trouble and hassles, and can piss off even the most stable of aircraft owners. You can easily lose a good airframe over early money talking. Win the seller over, rather than disparaging their beloved chariot in an attempt to "talk down' the price on the front end.
I've done full pre-purchase inspections, and I've bought airplanes sight-unseen in auctions. You can still get stung either way, but if you account for things on the front end in your offer ~ and be willing to walk away ~ you'll usually come out just fine. It's OK to be infatuated with one... just don't 'Fall In Love', until you bring her home.  ~ ME
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 00:11 |
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Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 1186
Post Likes: +750
Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
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Username Protected wrote: I'm looking at an airplane that had a field overhaul ten years ago by Quackenbush Aviation up in Seattle. (He's since retired)
In the decade since, it's flown maybe 20 hours. Compressions are good. Oil consumption appears to be good, but I don't see how the rings could have even sat yet.
TCM IO-470H
Obviously a very thorough borescope and engine oil analysis is needed during the pre-purchase inspection. I have no O-470 experience besides flying behind them. What's the hive wisdom for being able to mitigate the risk associated with purchasing an airplane whose powerplant has been through this scenario?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Where has plane been sitting. Yuma, AZ like being in dry storage. Florida not good.
_________________
Dan F
Indecision is the key to flexibility
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 12:12 |
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Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 939
Post Likes: +2083
Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
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Username Protected wrote: Where has plane been sitting. Yuma, AZ like being in dry storage. Florida not good. Heated hangar, Pacific Northwest. I've flown the airplane, it's very nice. But I think I've got an inkling what the owner has in it and what he thinks it's worth vs. what it would have to sell for in order for me to consider rolling the dice on the motor.
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 12:14 |
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Joined: 09/09/14
Posts: 939
Post Likes: +2083
Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
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Thanks to everybody who took the time to share their wisdom with me on this thread - I really appreciate that a lot.
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 22:03 |
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Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3724
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
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Quick note.
You don't have to necessarily budget for a full overhaul as a worst-case with that low of engine time.
An IRAN would be a much better course of action, only run you $7,500-10,000 depending on replacement of lifters/cam, plus install.
If I were to buy a hangar queen I'd probably do that right off the bat and adjust my offer accordingly, especially on a single, but that's just me.
Good luck!
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Post subject: Re: Hangar Queen Roulette Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 22:28 |
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Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 9634
Post Likes: +5111
Aircraft: Warbirds
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Username Protected wrote: Quick note.
You don't have to necessarily budget for a full overhaul as a worst-case with that low of engine time.
An IRAN would be a much better course of action, only run you $7,500-10,000 depending on replacement of lifters/cam, plus install.
If I were to buy a hangar queen I'd probably do that right off the bat and adjust my offer accordingly, especially on a single, but that's just me.
Good luck! We had hoped for an IRAN but due to parts replacement costs in the gears it ended up close to an OH anyway on the O-470R. It had some 180 hrs on an OH back in 1989. Engine was done again in 2016. Other issues we found on the 182 was 2 new fuel bladders. Changed a bunch of 50 year old hoses. Replaced the 50 yo lord mounts on the instrument panel. Then the new panel and Avionics. Last radio was done in 1979. Only working Comm was Mk12A when we did things after flying about 20 hrs after purchase. If it’s any consolation he did take a parachute up sitting in the back seat for a while when 1st Flying it after purchase. I asked if he was planning a James Bond exit throwing the chute out, catching up and strapping in while on the way down.
_________________
Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.
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