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01 Feb 2026, 16:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 06:54 
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Joined: 05/10/09
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Company: On the wagon
Location: Overland Park, KS (KLXT)
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From my time at APR, I'm intimately familiar with the Audi 3.0 TDI. The single ECM doesn't concern me that much because it's actually very well made hardware and software wise. Additionally, it has well implemented safety features. If anything goes wrong, it reboots itself and comes back up in the same operating state. Running a Bosch ECU in a single engine airplane wouldn't scare me at all. It's no more risk of a failure than having a single mechanical fuel distributor on a 6 cyl injected engine.

Now, the Audi 3.0 TDI itself is another story. In particular, the high pressure fueling system is total garbage. The HPFP rides on a cam lobe and has no guides whatsoever. These engines have a tendency to randomly smash the lifter for the HPFP. When that happens, the engine stops running and frequently seizes. It also blasts smashed metal bits through every attached fuel line. Audi has extended the warranty on the fuel pump to 100k trying to cover this up and prevent a recall.

I sold my Q7 TDI because of this problem. There's NO WAY IN ANY UNIVERSE I would ever leave the ground behind or in front of one of these engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 07:02 
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Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5660
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Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
That’s what I like about dealing with things - they work the same way every time. You study the materials and the processes and you figure out how things really work. Then you start using that knowledge to make something different. Little tweaks and quicker, easier ways are usually simple and rewarding. Every once in a while, you stumble onto something revolutionary. With a little luck, you get rich and famous. Or not.

People are waaaay different. You can manipulate people with words and ideas even if those words and ideas don’t match reality. It’s all about reading you audience and crafting a pitch that tickles their fantasies. It can be fun and profitable but it’s an ephemeral result. Any shinier bauble comes along and - poof - your audience is gone.

I suspect people like the Raptor guy confuse things with people.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 00:49 
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Joined: 10/26/08
Posts: 4627
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Location: Pinehurst, NC (KSOP)
Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
Uh-oh. Dose of reality from his intended test pilot. Two aerodynamic issues and the entirely single-channel, single point of failure electronic engine control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSAC5EAe2HI
His discussion of how he ended up with the Audi engine (his 3rd choice) was most enlightening. TL;DR, his first choice aero engines were realistic but nobody was interested because it was no better than existing airplanes. So he chose the Audi because it made the concept sell, hoping/expecting that it could be made realistic over time.
He says he got $2.7 million of customer money and it sounds like there's not much left.



Just watched this latest video myself.

Gotta admit that I was very disappointed in his apparent resignation from the project.

Although many here, and elsewhere, have been critics, I personally was rooting for the underdog.

Part of me wants to see him get another opinion and definitely some experienced advice on the project.

I would hate to see anyone who has invested in this end up with nothing to show for their confidence / optimism for such a project.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 01:11 
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Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14465
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
2.9m of OPM (other peoples money) and what is there to show for it but a Velocity XL clone that has aerodynamic issues and a sketchy auto diesel conversion. I watched the video, I think the guy has mental health issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 07:51 
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Company: Looking
Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
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Username Protected wrote:
I think the guy has mental health issues.

Anyone who tries to build a company in aviation has mental health issues. It is a prerequisite.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 09:01 
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Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 29
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Aircraft: A320, Sling TSi
Username Protected wrote:
I think the guy has mental health issues.

Anyone who tries to build a company in aviation has mental health issues. It is a prerequisite.


I've always thought this guy was great example of Dunning-Kruger, but I have admired his ambition and his transparency. Hard not to feel bad for the guy, he has put so much into this project.
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 09:12 
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Joined: 12/07/09
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The latest Raptor video was tough to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cSAC5EAe2HI

Looks like reality is finally setting in. After watching that video, I wonder how many buyers are questioning their decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 10:09 
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
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Seems to me the three "red flags" could have been foreseen and mitigated early on had he consulted with experts along the way. Why wouldn't you collaborate with test pilots at various stages? The single ECU problem seems like a surmountable engineering challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 10:26 
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Aircraft: A320, Sling TSi
Username Protected wrote:
The latest Raptor video was tough to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cSAC5EAe2HI

Looks like reality is finally setting in. After watching that video, I wonder how many buyers are questioning their decision.


You're only about 9 posts late. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 10:59 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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It's 43 minutes long. Where does the test pilot express his misgivings?

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"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 11:14 
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Joined: 03/01/17
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Location: CA
Aircraft: V35, C150
Username Protected wrote:
It's 43 minutes long. Where does the test pilot express his misgivings?


Stuart - he covers the synopsis of all 3 within the first 15 minutes. There’s an issue with the size of the winglets, the movement of the elevator, and the engine only having a single channel ECU.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 12:17 
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Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 10425
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Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
I've been side-listening to this whole video.
He mentions doing some taxi testing. Based on one of the concerns of the test pilot; namely, the canard/elevator behavior, this has me quite worried.

If the test pilot is correct and "down elevator" is insufficient, a rapid pitch up in a taxi test could be a killer.

Exhibit A - https://www.wxyz.com/news/experimental- ... un-airport

There are videos of this crash out there, but I could not find one. If someone finds one, please send it to the Raptor guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 12:19 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
I've been side-listening to this whole video.
He mentions doing some taxi testing. Based on one of the concerns of the test pilot; namely, the canard/elevator behavior, this has me quite worried.

If the test pilot is correct and "down elevator" is insufficient, a rapid pitch up in a taxi test could be a killer.

Exhibit A - https://www.wxyz.com/news/experimental- ... un-airport

There are videos of this crash out there, but I could not find one. If someone finds one, please send it to the Raptor guy.


OK - found one on this page
https://www.wxyz.com/news/founder-of-de ... un-airport

It is the third video thumbnail.

I posted same in Youtube comments

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 22:47 
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Joined: 01/30/15
Posts: 1557
Post Likes: +678
Location: Dalton, Ga. KDNN
Username Protected wrote:
From my time at APR, I'm intimately familiar with the Audi 3.0 TDI. The single ECM doesn't concern me that much because it's actually very well made hardware and software wise. Additionally, it has well implemented safety features. If anything goes wrong, it reboots itself and comes back up in the same operating state. Running a Bosch ECU in a single engine airplane wouldn't scare me at all. It's no more risk of a failure than having a single mechanical fuel distributor on a 6 cyl injected engine.

Now, the Audi 3.0 TDI itself is another story. In particular, the high pressure fueling system is total garbage. The HPFP rides on a cam lobe and has no guides whatsoever. These engines have a tendency to randomly smash the lifter for the HPFP. When that happens, the engine stops running and frequently seizes. It also blasts smashed metal bits through every attached fuel line. Audi has extended the warranty on the fuel pump to 100k trying to cover this up and prevent a recall.

I sold my Q7 TDI because of this problem. There's NO WAY IN ANY UNIVERSE I would ever leave the ground behind or in front of one of these engines.


Sean, It’s a Motec ECU Maybe he should use an AEM :lol:
A single ECU of any type would be one of the least issues I would worry about test flying this or any new new new airplane like this.

Props to this guy though. I wish him good luck.

Edit: Just got thru watching the whole video. The guy was bummed out (so was I) and probably just needs a couple days rest to mentally recoup. I just don’t see the power plant being an issue with test flying. Heck, buy an old airplane and put the engine in it and start putting some hours on the “drivetrain”

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 23:45 
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Joined: 01/30/15
Posts: 1557
Post Likes: +678
Location: Dalton, Ga. KDNN
Username Protected wrote:
I've been side-listening to this whole video.
He mentions doing some taxi testing. Based on one of the concerns of the test pilot; namely, the canard/elevator behavior, this has me quite worried.

If the test pilot is correct and "down elevator" is insufficient, a rapid pitch up in a taxi test could be a killer.

Exhibit A - https://www.wxyz.com/news/experimental- ... un-airport

There are videos of this crash out there, but I could not find one. If someone finds one, please send it to the Raptor guy.



http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/03/f ... -2019.html

Very similar and recent, 20 miles down the road from me. I hadn’t heard any details such as “did not intend to fly”
I don’t believe that since a camera aircraft was airborn etc. I was at that airport a few days after and when told the NTSB/FAA (or whoever) was there interviewing folks .....I scurried my butt back north.

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