22 Nov 2025, 15:33 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 07:04 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 6310 Post Likes: +4393 Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
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Username Protected wrote: I get the importance of single pilot. But.......90% of the time my wife (she’s a pilot) and I usually fly together. I was looking at Lear 40/45......wow........hard to beat their performance.?!? And the acquisition costs are same as a TBM? Now I dont know anything about Lear’s. Operating costs etc probably beyond reach........ looks like an awesome bird Lear 40/45 would be one Heckuva an elevator ride MC!  Sams right on with the avionics but if that’s no issue and you can reasonably get ADSb out then it’s all about operational costs/insurance. Better be sure you want/need the added costs. Something not always considered in the cost area is that our singles get charged Mucho lower fees in those expensive airport stops in and around big cities..
_________________ Chuck KEVV
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 08:25 |
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Joined: 05/23/08 Posts: 6063 Post Likes: +715 Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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We need another tread for the Lear Michael, totally different ball game. You have your copilot and if you can swing it, Username Protected wrote: I get the importance of single pilot. But.......90% of the time my wife (she’s a pilot) and I usually fly together. I was looking at Lear 40/45......wow........hard to beat their performance.?!? And the acquisition costs are same as a TBM? Now I dont know anything about Lear’s. Operating costs etc probably beyond reach........ looks like an awesome bird Lear 40/45 would be one Heckuva an elevator ride MC!  Sams right on with the avionics but if that’s no issue and you can reasonably get ADSb out then it’s all about operational costs/insurance. Better be sure you want/need the added costs. Something not always considered in the cost area is that our singles get charged Mucho lower fees in those expensive airport stops in and around big cities..
_________________ Former Baron 58 owner. Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 08:36 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5248 Post Likes: +2426
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: Better be sure you want/need the added costs. . ^^^^^^^^^^ quite staggering when you really get to looking at them. Any jet for that matter. You can figure $2000/hour IF you fly it about 300 hrs a year for a Lear. M2 or 100 certainly a little less.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 09:13 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I get the importance of single pilot. But.......90% of the time my wife (she’s a pilot) and I usually fly together. I was looking at Lear 40/45......wow........hard to beat their performance.?!? And the acquisition costs are same as a TBM? Now I dont know anything about Lear’s. Operating costs etc probably beyond reach........ looks like an awesome bird That is an ideal situation for which there are many more options than a Lear 45. How about an XLS?
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 09:31 |
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Joined: 04/01/15 Posts: 968 Post Likes: +851
Aircraft: Bonanza F35
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I'd rather have a Pilatus, or a Cirrus Jet......... $0.02 
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 09:38 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I'd rather have a Pilatus, or a Cirrus Jet......... $0.02  Simplicity trumps all. Easy to own. Easy to fly. Effective. Efficient.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 09:59 |
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Joined: 12/19/11 Posts: 3308 Post Likes: +1434 Company: Bottom Line Experts Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Username Protected wrote: quite staggering when you really get to looking at them. Any jet for that matter. You can figure $2000/hour IF you fly it about 300 hrs a year for a Lear. M2 or 100 certainly a little less. $600,000 / yr flying budget. Yes that's quite staggering. Absolutely eye-watering. However there are those that spend far greater and $600K / yr probably seems like chump change to them. I remember when I first started flying (and was broke) thinking about having to spend $20K / yr for flying seemed outrageous and unobtainable to me. I used to dream about having that kind of money to be able to fly regularly. Now I spend 6X that and it doesn't seem like much to me but looking at turbine options and spending $200K-250K / yr seems outrageous now. It's just remarkable how everything changes based on your perspective.
_________________ Don Coburn Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist 2004 SR22 G2
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 10:47 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: $600,000 / yr flying budget. Yes that's quite staggering. Absolutely eye-watering. However there are those that spend far greater and $600K / yr probably seems like chump change to them.
That's really not the debate..... The debate is "how much more would you spend to save X hours IF those hours could truly be saved"? That extra 100 knots costs......... I have non pilot friends that own big 2 pilot jets and all still will go fly commercial if they're flying alone etc. rather than spend the money. I never fly commercial.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 11:10 |
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Joined: 12/19/11 Posts: 3308 Post Likes: +1434 Company: Bottom Line Experts Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
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Username Protected wrote: $600,000 / yr flying budget. Yes that's quite staggering. Absolutely eye-watering. However there are those that spend far greater and $600K / yr probably seems like chump change to them.
That's really not the debate..... The debate is "how much more would you spend to save X hours IF those hours could truly be saved"? That extra 100 knots costs.........
Totally agree. However, it's also not just about the time savings but the additional opportunity value. I know what my time is worth and 100 hrs saved is exceptionally valuable to me. Accessing other markets that are currently not reachable and also being able to touch (2) clients / day instead of (1) has enormous value as well.
We all have different KPIs and ways that we 'justify' the cost. It's just remarkable how you convince yourself that something is 'reasonable' and 'justified' but when you step back and look at it, it's still a mountain of money and an absolute fortune for another, less fortunate person.
Just last night we were talking about a family we learned about (mother and two children) who are squatting in empty apartments and can't afford food or clothes or basic need for their kids. $10K-$20K for them would be a life changing sum of $$ that would allow them to have a place to live, food and clothes.
And here we are talking about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for transportation...
_________________ Don Coburn Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist 2004 SR22 G2
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 11:13 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Totally agree. However, it's also not just about the time savings but the additional opportunity value. I know what my time is worth and 100 hrs saved is exceptionally valuable to me. Accessing other markets that are currently not reachable and also being able to touch (2) clients / day instead of (1) has enormous value as well.
Are you counting the 3 weeks of type rating in your 100 hours? As I've already stated in this thread...... I believe the 100 hour savings is pure fiction. I don't count "flight time". I count "door to door time".
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 11:41 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5248 Post Likes: +2426
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: Totally agree. However, it's also not just about the time savings but the additional opportunity value. I know what my time is worth and 100 hrs saved is exceptionally valuable to me. Accessing other markets that are currently not reachable and also being able to touch (2) clients / day instead of (1) has enormous value as well.
Are you counting the 3 weeks of type rating in your 100 hours? As I've already stated in this thread...... I believe the 100 hour savings is pure fiction. I don't count "flight time". I count "door to door time".
All the more reason to have a pilot in your bed and a hangar in your backyard.
Type rating? Best vacation I could dream of.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 11:47 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Type rating? Best vacation I could dream of.
That's fine but it more than vaporizes the fictional "100 hours a year savings". No different than spending 3 weeks doing your own annual but claiming it only cost you $1500. I don't care if you love working on your airplane.... your time still costs $$.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 12:42 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5248 Post Likes: +2426
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: Type rating? Best vacation I could dream of.
That's fine but it more than vaporizes the fictional "100 hours a year savings". No different than spending 3 weeks doing your own annual but claiming it only cost you $1500. I don't care if you love working on your airplane.... your time still costs $$.
Yeah. It at jet level it’s not about the money anymore. It’s about the time. Privacy. But yes time is money.
Here’s how I see it personally: If I get into a jet it will probably be an SP like a CJ2. I’ll do initial in the plane, then a recurrent in the sim. Save a lot of time.
Now if I had the money for something like a Falcon, Money is no longer an issue; time, privacy, and convenience are the issues.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 13:39 |
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Joined: 06/28/09 Posts: 14424 Post Likes: +9557 Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: $600,000 / yr flying budget. Yes that's quite staggering. Absolutely eye-watering. However there are those that spend far greater and $600K / yr probably seems like chump change to them. That's thinking like an individual, not a company. Nearly all these jets are owned by corporations. 600k /yr is probably 5 fully weighted employees. The companies that buy these jets likely have a few hundred employees at least. It's all paid with pretax money and deducted.
_________________ http://calipilot.com atp/cfii
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