BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:04

Username Protected wrote:

I flew a bunch of guys from Norcal to Cabo in the PC12 (1100 miles)... nearly five hours en route and they all got out and said never again the Pilatus for that route. Taking a jet instead would have cost them a little bit more, but not much. Most people who are flying private and not flying themselves don't want to sit for 5 hrs. Kills the whole point.

"Bunch of guys"?.... how many? I'll tell you how much more it would have cost. 5 hours in the PC12 is still 3.5 to 4 in the jet. It's not like the jet cuts it down to 30 minutes.

I just got back from Cabo last night. 6 hours "door to door". Door of the fbo in downtown cabo to the front door of my house. The long runway at PDK is closed. PC12 likes the short runway. You can't beat that time in anything.

Just like the Falcon 20 I flew back from Mexico the week before.... the jet would need to stop for gas. The PC12 goes non stop.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:08

Username Protected wrote:

5 hours in the PC12 is still 3.5 to 4 in the jet. It's not like the jet cuts it down to 30 minutes.

I just got back from Cabo last night. 6 hours "door to door". Door of the fbo in downtown cabo to the front door of my house. The long runway at PDK is closed. You can't beat that time in anything.

Just like the Falcon 20 I flew back from Mexico the week before.... the jet would need to stop for gas. The PC12 goes non stop.

Yeah I agree with that... a jet without long legs is pointless.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:09

Username Protected wrote:

Lear jets keep popping their head up. And they’re putting the G5000 in the XLS. Nice plane.

$1MM+ a year to operate.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:09

Username Protected wrote:

Yeah I agree with that... a jet without long legs is pointless.

How many guys were on that flight? Enough to require a 2 pilot jet to be able to go non stop?

My friend paid $64K round trip recently to fly Phenom 300 round trip from Atlanta to Aspen. 2 pilots on board. $8K an hour.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:11

Username Protected wrote:

Jetbrokers put DOC of these things about $1000/hr more than a 12 based on 250hrs/year.
Crazy expensive unless there is a return.

They're lying.

My PC12 costs me $1K an hour and I'm flying it.

Old jet + 2 pilots..... Like I said, NetJet books out their Phenom 300's with 2 pilot for $8K an hour.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:13

Username Protected wrote:

Yeah I agree with that... a jet without long legs is pointless.

How many guys were on that flight? Enough to require a 2 pilot jet to be able to go non stop?

My friend paid $64K round trip recently to fly Phenom 300 round trip from Atlanta to Aspen. 2 pilots on board. $8K an hour.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:18

Username Protected wrote:

That was 6 guys and their bags. The main guy is friends with the owner and has a lease on it, and also has a lease on some jets, the jets were not available. On a $ per hour basis, the jet made more sense for that trip, even with two pilots. He mainly uses the PC12 on really short flights... like 80 miles to jump over Bay Area traffic on a Friday for example. 20m flight vs 2 hrs driving. That 1.5 hrs matters to him.

I agree the jet makes more sense IF you're willing to pay the bill. 6 guys plus 2 pilots is midsize jet territory..... or PC12.

I just flew Atlanta to Mexico City on a Falcon 20 with 2 pilots. The flight was supposed to be 3.5 hours but Mexican ATC made it 5 hours. Going home we had a fuel stop and had to land at LZU instead of PDK because the long runway is closed at PDK. Door to Door times would have been faster in the PC12 in this instance. Of course it's not always the case.

My only point is.... there's always more to the story than top end cruise speed. The jet has more hurdles to jump than the PC12. Every hurdle is an opportunity for chaos to enter the equation.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 13:26

Yeah that sucks. Jets have their disadvantages, and the PC12 wins all around most of the time. For example, I just flew the PC12 from CCR to 3S9 caravan with a Citation III because we had to take 16 people. 3500 ft runway and everyone right to their destination, PC12 loaded near gross with 10. The Citation had to go to KDLS for runway, and then a 2 hr van ride.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 14:23

Username Protected wrote:

Jetbrokers put DOC of these things about $1000/hr more than a 12 based on 250hrs/year.
Crazy expensive unless there is a return.

They're lying.

My PC12 costs me $1K an hour and I'm flying it.

Old jet + 2 pilots..... Like I said, NetJet books out their Phenom 300's with 2 pilot for $8K an hour.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 16:44

Maybe I don’t know where TEB and ATL are, but those are our (east coast travelers) typical winter winds. Headwind heading north to south.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 18:02

Username Protected wrote:

Yeah I agree with that... a jet without long legs is pointless.

How many guys were on that flight? Enough to require a 2 pilot jet to be able to go non stop?

My friend paid $64K round trip recently to fly Phenom 300 round trip from Atlanta to Aspen. 2 pilots on board. $8K an hour.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 18:16

Username Protected wrote:

Your friend picked the wrong charter company, then later I saw it was NJ. Now I get the price, still bad, but I get it.

Netjets

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 18:17

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe I don’t know where TEB and ATL are, but those are our (east coast travelers) typical winter winds. Headwind heading north to south.

ATL = Atlanta. I'm East Coast. I fly to NYC all the time. I'm familiar with the winds.

The flight to NYC from Atlanta isn't long enough to warrant a jet over a PC12. The flight to Colorado from Atlanta is long enough to warrant the jet.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Nov 2018, 06:21

Username Protected wrote:

Netjets

I see they are getting rid of all their jets and turning exclusively to PC12 and Denali

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Nov 2018, 09:17

Username Protected wrote:

The flight to Colorado from Atlanta is long enough to warrant the jet.

Yeah. For a price.

I think the 12's perfect for you. You're smart enough you don't want to just blow good money way. Jets going to be the deepest black hole you've ever dumped money into. With no real return i suspect. the 12's cheap cheap cheap compared to a jet that has any legs. Its easy to operate. Its safe as hell. Holds a ton. If anything hold out for the 24. But haul pickles or chickens or something every once in a while.

Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet?