I just had a annual done on a 1981 PA28-151, It took them 52 hours at $75 hour (hourly rate is average). Miner squawk, replace o-ring on breaks (rebuild they called it, no other parts) and o-ring on parking brakes (rebuild they called it, no other parts) didn't see charge for o-rings. I was under the impression that this annual should take around 20 hours plus any additional repairs. Dose anyone know of a maintenance book that breaks down recommend time to do different repairs or is there any mechanics out there that can help me. A $2000 job turned into a $4500 job. OUTRAGEOUS!

Did you run your 20 hour impression by the shop before they started the work or ask what the estimated time and cost was, or did you just toss them the keys and tell them to call you when it's done?

Hi Robert,
yes that sounds very high
see attached, from the PA28 service manual
hard to imagine this running more than a couple days

A bit late now but generally the shop will quote a flat rate (as in xx hours to complete an annual inspection). It is best to have agreed with the shop that once the inspection is complete you will review the list of squawks and the authorize any other repairs.

The O rings are pretty minor, I had a leaking one not long ago and my shop did not bother to charge for the ring, only an hour of labor for the replacement.

At this point you can ask the shop why they billed 60 hours on a job that is usually ~25.

Dear Robert,
It's good to vent, you will feel better. But, is all they was an annual and o-rings. I NEVER have an annual that clean. There is always something. My "annual is usually 2k on a 74 Cherokee 180. The rest of what is needed is another 2k. AND, I'd be SO happy is labor was only 75/hr. Mine is 95/hr
Fly on,
Ralph

Robert, your profile says you also have an A36, so I'd guess this isn't your first rodeo regarding annuals. Is this a new plane? Is this a new to you shop? My first PA28 "annual", done immediately after purchase, was close to $5K but it brought the plane up to a good standard and nothing was "overlooked." I'd say 20hr baseline, but another 32 beyond that and doing nothing but fixing a leaky brake caliper is certainly not reasonable.

Robert, your profile says you also have an A36, so I'd guess this isn't your first rodeo regarding annuals. Is this a new plane? Is this a new to you shop? My first PA28 "annual", done immediately after purchase, was close to $5K but it brought the plane up to a good standard and nothing was "overlooked." I'd say 20hr baseline, but another 32 beyond that and doing nothing but fixing a leaky brake caliper is certainly not reasonable.

My local IA charges about 20 hrs labor for a base no-assist annual. Might want to check the labor breakdown for the various duties, esp the brakes, since that work would have been above and beyond. While seemingly a simple job, my IA HATES working one Cherokee brake lines. Says they are darn need impossible to bleed completely. Still don't think that would add 30 hours to the tab.

I can tell you from first hand experience that rudder pedal brakes on a Cherokee or Tomahawk are a PITA. First you have to crawl into the pedal area, disconnect and cap the lines. Then pull the cotter pins and clevis pins to get the cylinders out without leaking fluid on the carpets. Each brake cylinder has 3 o-rings, the smallest of which on the bypass valve. Getting to it requires care and a sterile work area, lest one of the little snap rings takes unexpected flight and you have to find it. Ask me how I know . Springs inside and out fight you all the way. Extricating petrified o-rings from soft aluminum grooves requires care and soft tools to prevent damage. Since the brake lines have several high points as they connect the top of one side to the bottom of the other, air gets trapped and is difficult to bleed out. Bleeding from the bottom up doesn't work as the check valves limit the reverse flow. It takes an assistant and coordination at the wheel caliper to get all of the air out. I challenge anyone to get this done in an hour or two and not make a mess inside the plane.

I'm not justifying your labor hours, just trying to shed some light on what may seem like a trivial job.

No one has mentioned recurrent AD's. For example, the crankshaft corrosion AD98-02-08 requires removal of the prop, removal of the end plug, thorough cleaning and dye penetrant inspection for cracks. Does your plane have the affected engine? Was this AD performed?

Get a full accounting of the labor hours from the shop, then you'll know.

Having an Experimental and a Repairman's Certificate, I do my own annual condition inspections. I just finished mine today after 12 days, working 4 hrs. per day (I'm old and tired). I performed this inspection as if my life depended on it, which it does. I checked the tightness of just about every bolt and nut on the aircraft, and actually found a few that needed tightening up, including the propeller bolts. I pretty much completely disassembled the retractable landing gear for inspection and lubrication. I changed out stuff that just didn't seem right. I disassembled and inspected the gascolator and lubricated the seal at the top and changed the O-ring at the bottom.

It's my sense that most pilots don't have a clue about all that is involved in a thorough inspection. If I were charging for my labor, it would have been in line with what the OP paid called "Outrageous". I'm sure there are A&Ps out there who would just pencil whip the inspection and charge less, but do you really want that?

Tom. See this thread. He picked up the bonanza yesterday.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156594&p=2219121#p2219121

That's the truth (rains it pours)! Was in a time crunch to get the piper ready for the pilot that was bring up my A36 was taking the piper back with him, mechanic who usually does my annual couldn't fit it in. I understand were everyone is coming from, having a plane isn't cheap and I want a mechanic being thorough, but I don't want to be taken advantage of ether.

As a similar example.... Recently I had a distant friend call me complaining of a similar annual inspection (at a higher price) on his Cherokee by one of the big name shops list on the right of this page. He's based at that airport. I asked him to send me the invoice and I'd review it, and explain how our shop would differ. I called him back in five minutes and said send them the check as they billed appropriately.

I see, and hear of, many people that drop their airplane off at a shop and say complete an annual inspection, never really understanding what's they are asking for, or what's involved. Do some shops take advantage of the situation, absolutely. For a "hands off" owner to just drop off the airplane, say "fix it" and then bitch when the bill shows up shows a complete lack of understanding, and frankly respect of the "business relationship."

Every aircraft owner needs to spend at least 15 minutes with the shop they are using to understand exactly what the scope of work is to be performed. Every shop should report back to the owner with the squawks that they found. Some of the minor squawks will just be repaired at the time as (a) it's required, (b) there is no options, and (c) it's quicker to fix than explain the repair. Ask the shop exactly what their process is, how it will be communicated to you, and exactly what is involved in an "annual inspection" as some shops include more or less in the flat rates. Ask them if the cost of repairs exceeds $xxx, to call you for authorization, keeping in mind that three $xxx repairs may exceed your maximum cost.

Robert, exactly what were your expectations of the shop when you dropped off your airplane for the annual inspection? In your OP, you stated you *assumed* (i.e., under the impression) ~20 hours @ $75/hour, that's $1500, and add in oil, filter, miscellaneous items and your around $2000 for sake of discussion. Was is a new airplane to that shop? I can easily spend 5 hours additional on AD compliance on an airplane that has poorly documented logs (and there are many out there), then walking to the airplane to verify that the AD was complied with if it was not well documented. It doesn't take much to add the ~30 additional hours (assuming no parts). Throw in a brake disc or two, and a set of brake pads, or a tube/tire and your $500 of cost in a heart beat.

If I were Robert, or anyone in the situation, I'd go talk to the shop with a printed copy of the invoice in my hand. *Kindly* ask them to explain the items that you have questions about. I've yet to hear of a shop that wouldn't sit down and explain their invoice to the customer. Maybe then, you'll have a legitimate gripe, or maybe you will understand the scope of work that was *assumed* to be approved when you dropped the airplane off.

As I tell my customers, you expect to be paid when you go to work, we only expect the same when we work. They are welcome to walk 160' from our shop to the local GM dealership and ask what they bill for labor.

Jason

Explain invoice to customer ……….. 1.0 hour ……. $75.00

Jason, I totally agree with what you say, but that wasn't the scenario. I spoke with the chief mechanic in his office to get a feel what it was going to cost me, this place mainly works on their own aircraft and chief mechanic was not there during the work. He goes and ferry s planes back from other country s. We were both on the same wave length and I even brought my own oil and filter. He looked up the squawks and said that the two that were there were minor ones, and if there were no major uses he said it shouldn't go over 2K. And here I am! I do have a meeting with him and the owner tomorrow.