I was in a position to buy an Eclipse back in the day. I took a test flight after doing all of my PPL, IFR, ME on Garmin and Avidyne. I looked at that little keyboard that slid out of the console and all the buttons in the wrong places and could only think "wtf"?

I asked the salesman... "why are you guys re-inventing the wheel with these avionics?" and he was like "oh, AVIO is much better than Garmin blah blah blah". I was a new pilot back then and easily saw the writing on the wall.

I for one was in love with the idea of the Kestrel. Not everyone needs to carry 10 people, but 6, with tons of room, tons of real baggage capability (useful load), OR 8 and going 300+ kts. That was very intriguing.

I was in a position to buy an Eclipse back in the day. I took a test flight after doing all of my PPL, IFR, ME on Garmin and Avidyne. I looked at that little keyboard that slid out of the console and all the buttons in the wrong places and could only think "wtf"?

I asked the salesman... "why are you guys re-inventing the wheel with these avionics?" and he was like "oh, AVIO is much better than Garmin blah blah blah". I was a new pilot back then and easily saw the writing on the wall.

Never been to the DMV I see.

Chip-

I think the Eclipse stick feel is very nice. In fact, that's perhaps why I love how the IV-P flies; virtually identical control feel and speeds (other than top end). The Eclipse is one of the nicest flying planes I've ever flown. Little known fact, the same guy that designed the PC-12 designed the Eclipse. That's how Vern snaked the employee from Pilatus; he wanted to design a jet and Pilatus was too conservative to do so until now.

This company has made every possible mistake ever. Engines, avionics, pricing, customer support, etc. I will never understand the Kestrel tangent; absolutely an insane waste of capital. Never, ever design an airplane unless 90% of the parts can be ordered from Aircraft Spruce or Aviall. Currently, if your Eclipse autopilot servo fails, you must order all 3 of them (not just 1) for $50,000. If your windshield breaks, tough luck, you must replace them all with glass for $80,000. Maybe Vern was thinking this was a Gillette razor; i.e., give the plane away and make it up with insane and proprietary parts.

Believe me, if I thought owning an Eclipse made any sense, I'd have one. Even at twice the fuel burn, an old Citation is a much better bet.

Hate to hear it, but just never thought they'd make it. As Jason said, they tried to do too much to begin, then, revise which changed the entire concept as far as affordability. Have several friends that lost deposits on the original fiasco. Never release money for something new without solid benchmarks and delivery dates.

Twice the climb rate, 2 mil cheaper, 60 knots faster, fits in a mortal sized hangar, Garmin avionics, isn't baboon butt ugly (Sorry JC and MP, ugly in a cute way)..... There is still the Epic which will do those things if it gets certified.

I like a lot about the Eclipse, but hand flying it was not one of the things I loved. A good engineer balances the controls. Elevator and aileron forces should be similar. In the Eclipse pitch is very sensitive, but you have to be Popeye to roll the plane anywhere near cruise speed. But most fly them on AP anyway.

Speaking of Epic...

Any update on a REAL certification date? Sure makes one cynical after all the promises!

Randy

None of this is actually true as no such aircraft exists.

All SETP's are baboon ugly.

None of this is actually true as no such aircraft exists.

All SETP's are baboon ugly.

I’ll issue the Minority Report....

I think the Eclipse (airplane) gets a bad rap. Every time I’m on the ramp with other pilots, they snear at the “baby airplane”, or “look at what the Gulfstream just sh*tted out.” Totally unjustified. I enjoyed hand flying an Eclipse. It flies just like my Baron - stable and smooth. Trim it, and it will stay where you put it. Engine out flying is 2 feet on the floor with near centerline thrust. It’s a great airplane for the money. And it fits in a T-hangar...

I agree that Chelton and Avidyne caused headaches for Eclipse early, and so did Williams. I’m surprised that Williams to PWC engine re-design didn’t kill the program right there.

I personally prefer the Eclipse side stick to my Baron yoke, to be honest. In my Baron, I can’t have my kneeboards on my legs in a crosswind landing — the yoke jams against them. A side stick is nice like an Airbus — hold your iPad, charts, or meal on your lap - no fuss. Feels natural after a few minutes of flying. Stick is angled inwards to your hand resting position, not straight up and down.

Avionics (AVIO NG) in my opinion are far more intuitive than the G1000/2000/3000 setup. IS&S did a good job placing items where it “felt right”. Garmin avionics have always felt (to me) like they were built by engineers, AVIO NG feels like it was designed by pilots. The info you need is in both, but Garmin feels like it was placed in a random place to fill a feature list. AVIO NG feels like my Aspen PFD — everything is right where I feel it should be. It flows. (This is not a knock on Garmin, just a preference).

I think the Eclipse is a great airplane for its mission - 3-4 people, 1000 nm, 60 gph, 374 ktas. If you don’t need the extra space or range of a KingAir, Pilatus, or TBM, you can’t bet an Eclipse. Goes like stink to 250 IAS, and decent to 275 IAS at altitude. ABS will stop it in 700 ft. It’s like a carrier trap.

Original Eclipse didn’t have the “stable” backing of Cessna and Embraer. Sadly, with all the prior investment, they were loosing money on each plane sold. Was only a matter of time. The planes are quite reliable, once the AC door and servos were sorted out. There are some killer price deals out there on Eclipses (sadly for current owners). Good prices on the used market, but I don’t see how Canada will compete at $3.5M+ when you run into used Phenoms and Mustangs with far more space at that price.

I’m probably one of the few people here, but I’d prefer an Eclipse over a CirrusJet, TBM or KingAir. But I’m not a tall or a big guy. Wife is also tiny and packs light. (Wifey doesn’t like the spinning things on the front).

AVIO makes the Eclipse feel unique. I’m not a fan that Canada was looking to go Garmin, but oh well.

If the rumors are true, sadly, we’ll never know what a Garmin’d Eclipse would be like.



Warren

Yeah yeah yeah.......

Does it have a lav?

Sure!

Murray

6-7 hour airplanes are pointless without a lav.

Kestrel and Eclipse are too late to the party. It doesn't matter if they get certified.... the void is already overfilled. Besides...... they won't be cheap once certified. They'll be $4MM+ like all the others.