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12 Nov 2025, 19:42 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 00:11 
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I actually mostly disagree. I think Honeywell has done some incrementally good things to support the engine and refine some parts. I don't think their HSI/Overhaul pricing is rapacious compared to P&W.

They are not doing a lot of new development on the engines, though.


They seem to be doing zero marketing or trying to attract new customers. They missed the whole SETP wave.


Are there any SETPs that don't have a reverse flow design?

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 00:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I actually mostly disagree. I think Honeywell has done some incrementally good things to support the engine and refine some parts. I don't think their HSI/Overhaul pricing is rapacious compared to P&W.

They are not doing a lot of new development on the engines, though.


They seem to be doing zero marketing or trying to attract new customers. They missed the whole SETP wave.


I don’t think they missed it as much as the design makes it impractical because of the tailpipe.

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 00:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
Are there any SETPs that don't have a reverse flow design?

Some of the Turbo Thrushes have Garretts, but that's not a very mainstream airplane. A few Caravan conversions too... other than those two I think it comes down to odds and ends around aviationdom. I can't think of any really popular examples.


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 02:40 
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It will be interesting to learn what this engine will actually do BETTER than the PT-6.
Basically everything, GE says. Lower fuel burn (higher pressure ratio, more efficient compressor), longer TBO, no HSI, lower cost of ownership.


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 07:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
It will be interesting to learn what this engine will actually do BETTER than the PT-6.
Basically everything, GE says. Lower fuel burn (higher pressure ratio, more efficient compressor), longer TBO, no HSI, lower cost of ownership.


Just like everything else, the proof is in the pudding. The test cell and operation are 2 different worlds. It’s like trying to soldier proof something. Good luck.

Not saying it won’t be a good engine, just saying, we’ll see.
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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 10:46 
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So it appears that the rear exhaust layout is a problem that can be addressed. They just route the exhaust out of one side of the nose. I wonder how much that affects performance? It seems to be available as a conversion only, so I wonder if it's one they came up with to hit a price point that they couldn't hit with a Pratt, or something like that?

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/154 ... 30aa_b.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 13:26 
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The Caravan conversion also solved the exhaust issue. I think it's a combination of things, roughly in order of importance:

1. PWC has the market locked up, their engines are reliable, the service network is well established, and aviation favors the low risk solution.
2. Garrets are super loud on the ground.
3. Garrets take longer to start and are more susceptible to hot/hung starts if the batteries are not in top condition.
4. Garret installations usually require two batteries for a series start. That adds about 90 lbs to the installation.
5. I am not sure about this one but maybe the NTS system is more complex and expensive than the PT6 auto feather system which is very simple, and not even required for some airframes.


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 17:36 
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5. I am not sure about this one but maybe the NTS system is more complex and expensive than the PT6 auto feather system which is very simple, and not even required for some airframes.

FWIW, the NTS system is a mechanical valve/gear gizmo which uses centrifugal/helical force to position a small valve. It's about the size of 2/3s of a tennis ball canister. There's not much complexity there. Electrical power is only required to run the oil pump to test the Beta indicator lights during preflight/runup, it's not required for the NTS system to operate. That's maybe slightly oversimplified, but it's a pretty clever and simple system.

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 23:33 
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Those one side exhaust stacks on those low and slow birds are pretty ugly. Looks like someone duct taped then on. Woof.

If you note the ceramic coated stacks on the Meridian are quite symmetric, look really fast and never lose their shine.

Attachment:
Stacks.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 23:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Those one side exhaust stacks on those low and slow birds are pretty ugly. Looks like someone duct taped then on. Woof.

If you note the ceramic coated stacks on the Meridian are quite symmetric, look really fast and never lose their shine.

Attachment:
Stacks.jpg


Ceramic coated what’s?

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 02:25 
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Ceramic coated stainless. They do it on car exhaust. http://specializedcoating.com/ceramic-coating/2018337

Could you do that on a turbine exhaust stack with just a log book entry?

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 02:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
5. I am not sure about this one but maybe the NTS system is more complex and expensive than the PT6 auto feather system which is very simple, and not even required for some airframes.

FWIW, the NTS system is a mechanical valve/gear gizmo which uses centrifugal/helical force to position a small valve. It's about the size of 2/3s of a tennis ball canister. There's not much complexity there. Electrical power is only required to run the oil pump to test the Beta indicator lights during preflight/runup, it's not required for the NTS system to operate. That's maybe slightly oversimplified, but it's a pretty clever and simple system.

Specifically, it requires no electrical power to work when an engine fails, requires no enablement by the crew through a switch or like device that could be forgotten, and doesn't have interaction between engines unlike the PT6 system. It is all self contained inside the engine gear case and runs exclusively on engine oil. You can't turn it off even if you wanted to.

The NTS system is also helpful on a single engine install. It will help prevent the plane from slowing down and stalling on engine failure, and extend the glide. The pilot can then fully feather to remove the last bit of drag as desired.

Mike C.
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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 02:45 
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Quote:
Specifically, it requires no electrical power to work when an engine fails, requires no enablement by the crew through a switch or like device that could be forgotten, and doesn't have interaction between engines unlike the PT6 system. It is all self contained inside the engine gear case and runs exclusively on engine oil. You can't turn it off even if you wanted to.
Sounds like the only thing that would make the system better is if it completely feathered the prop with no action by the pilot like the PT6 system does :D

Just teasing, it sounds like an ingenious and simple device. The PT6 pressure switches do occasionally need adjustment. I just like how there's nothing to do engine wise with the PT6 system after a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: New Denali motors runs...
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 17:39 
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I don't see any ceramics.......coated or otherwise. :shrug:

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