BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 16:59

Username Protected wrote:

We had that fork in the GA road in the 1970's when Cessna innovated with the Citation 500 Fanjet. Cessna bet on turbojets taking over GA; Beech bet on turboprops; Piper & Mooney and others bet on pistons. Where are they now?

The Thurman Munson accident really derailed Cessna's plans that the Citation could become everyman's aircraft. It took 30 years for the SP turbojet to recover from that.

I think the Cirrus jet is today's game changer.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 17:02

I thought you and Allen were just pitching us on how great it is to fly a two-engine jet?!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 17:03

But in either case the show stopper for me is the cost - op ex as well as acquisition cost although I realize that the acquisition cost is a whole lot more in reach these days if "new" is not a requirement.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 17:06

Username Protected wrote:

Wish it wasn’t a quarter-million-plus a year habit!

It doesn't have to be.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 17:14

Clint, what do you think your cost is running and a what utilization?

Happy to hear it in terms of the fixed (hangar, insurance, mx) and the variable costs, thx.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 17:16

Username Protected wrote:

Wish it wasn’t a quarter-million-plus a year habit!

It doesn't have to be.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 19:11

My DOC is running just above $800/hr, since fuel has increased some. Typical fixed costs for a Mustang will run in the $50K ballpark depending on what you pay for maintenance, training, insurance, and hangar. Insurance will vary for different owners depending on their liability limit, and maintenance will depend on your choice of shop.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 20:01

I learned more about flying jets because I was proficient in my Champ. V1 cuts were no big deal because I knew the “feel” of what my rudder did and gave me when needed. The V1 cut was just like a crosswind; an invitation to a dance. I’m really fortunate to stay proficient in big and little stuff. The little stuff is more fun but traveling in a jet is the way to go. The bigger the are the easier they fly, eh Paul?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 20:17

Username Protected wrote:

I learned more about flying jets because I was proficient in my Champ. V1 cuts were no big deal because I knew the “feel” of what my rudder did and gave me when needed. The V1 cut was just like a crosswind; an invitation to a dance. I’m really fortunate to stay proficient in big and little stuff. The little stuff is more fun but traveling in a jet is the way to go. The bigger the are the easier they fly, eh Paul?

That's right Mark. By the way, which brand of Mach meter does your Champ have?

It's a good thing you fly your Champ, because you know yaw dampered jets kill your rudder technique. :eek:

When I got new guys in the 747 who were intimidated by it's size, I would tell them "just fly your instrument panel, the rest of the airplane will follow."

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 20:57

Username Protected wrote:

My DOC is running just above $800/hr, since fuel has increased some. Typical fixed costs for a Mustang will run in the $50K ballpark depending on what you pay for maintenance, training, insurance, and hangar. Insurance will vary for different owners depending on their liability limit, and maintenance will depend on your choice of shop.

Thanks Clint. $130-210k for 100-200 hours/yr plus, I assume, depreciation and cost of capital. Pretty much my expectation.

Easy call for me - my jet flying is gonna have to be on someone else’s tab. My Bonanza is as pricey as I’m comfortable with and I don’t have the business mission to make the jet compelling or deductible.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Dec 2017, 22:33

Month of December
C550
Flights - 28
Hours - 58
Night - 23
Actual Instrument - 10
Night Landings - 13
Day Landings - 15

I am beat.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Dec 2017, 00:48

Username Protected wrote:

Month of December
C550
Flights - 28
Hours - 58
Night - 23
Actual Instrument - 10
Night Landings - 13
Day Landings - 15

I am beat.

And you still run a company?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Dec 2017, 00:55

Username Protected wrote:

OEI GA for example. Don't even try it in any piston powered twin. You should know on final OEI in a piston twin you are committed to land.

Tackling winter weather conditions in a turbojet that you would not launch into in a FIKI piston twin.

Turbojet gives you advanced capabilities that you need to use wisely.

Yeah...this. Our procedure is to wait until blue line before retracting gear. Because if you go OEI below blue line, it is a trip downhill. Chop power and put it down. 300-400 feet and climbing is a different story. Should be able to work your way out of that.

These old pistons are complicated. Had a turbine guy climb up in the cockpit and go "whoa...this is complex...".

Old piston twins are definitely not for everyone. Turboprop beats piston, jet beats turboprop.