BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 14:44

Michael -

A few questions if you have a moment:

1) What's the full fuel payload?
2) Realistic range at normal cruise speed?
3) What is the normal cruise speed & fuel burn?

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 14:49

Username Protected wrote:

Yeh, I really didn't get this guy trying to be a jerk to ATC. ATC is your friend and 99% of the time when they ask you to do something inconvenient it's for a safety reason. No win for anyone and lots of risk of something expensive.

I wouldn't recommend doing what this jerk did but if he was in class G airspace, I do think it is within your right to cancel IFR.

A good refresher on class G airspace: http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/ ... -airspace/
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The controller said hold the 010 heading until below 4,000. So anywhere around Austin isn’t that Class E Airspace and not G?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 15:29

Username Protected wrote:

Yeh, I really didn't get this guy trying to be a jerk to ATC. ATC is your friend and 99% of the time when they ask you to do something inconvenient it's for a safety reason. No win for anyone and lots of risk of something expensive.

I wouldn't recommend doing what this jerk did but if he was in class G airspace, I do think it is within your right to cancel IFR.

A good refresher on class G airspace: http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/ ... -airspace/
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Canceling IFR wasn't the problem. Refusing an ATC instruction while in controlled airspace was. He couldn't have been in Class G.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 15:31

Username Protected wrote:

I have a small skydrol leak coming from the brake reservoir that I am fixing today. I think it's a fitting. Nasty crap, looks like I spilled paint stripper on a spot on the belly by the nose gear. This thing just needed to be used and exercised. I have all the other systems working flawlessly which is shocking really.

Be very careful around Skydrol. Can cause some persistent skin rashes (from personal experience) and probably worse.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 16:54

Username Protected wrote:

Yeh, I really didn't get this guy trying to be a jerk to ATC. ATC is your friend and 99% of the time when they ask you to do something inconvenient it's for a safety reason. No win for anyone and lots of risk of something expensive.

I wouldn't recommend doing what this jerk did but if he was in class G airspace, I do think it is within your right to cancel IFR.

A good refresher on class G airspace: http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/ ... -airspace/
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Canceling IFR wasn't the problem. Refusing an ATC instruction while in controlled airspace was. He couldn't have been in Class G.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 19:11

Skydrol nasty stuff. And insanely expensive, too. So just to save some money you need to fix leak!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 20:21

Username Protected wrote:

Michael -

A few questions if you have a moment:

1) What's the full fuel payload?
2) Realistic range at normal cruise speed?
3) What is the normal cruise speed & fuel burn?

Robert

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

Realistic range is 1000 ifr and 1100 vfr

Tas cruise is 350kts burning 800pph or 120 gph at fl370

It really has pretty decent performance for its price point

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 20:28

Username Protected wrote:

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

BEW is without pilot(s); BOW is with pilot(s).

Considering the 501 can be flown with one pilot or 2 crew I doubt W&B begins with BOW.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 20:41

Username Protected wrote:

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

BEW is without pilot(s); BOW is with pilot(s).

Considering the 501 can be flown with one pilot or 2 crew I doubt W&B begins with BOW.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2017, 23:45

Username Protected wrote:

I assume the 2 pilot Citations start with BOW?

Really you can't assume. You have to read the fine print. Sometimes BEW is used and sometimes BOW is used.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2017, 12:41

Username Protected wrote:

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

Realistic range is 1000 ifr and 1100 vfr

Tas cruise is 350kts burning 800pph or 120 gph at fl370

It really has pretty decent performance for its price point

Huh. That's pretty impressive. Would love a little more range (I do 1200 or so routinely but two 2 hour legs isn't the worst thing in the world).

What's your thought on Thrust Reversers and anti-lock brakes? Seems that about 1/2 the fleet has TRs, but I can't get a handle on how many have anti-lock brakes.

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2017, 15:51

Username Protected wrote:

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

Realistic range is 1000 ifr and 1100 vfr

Tas cruise is 350kts burning 800pph or 120 gph at fl370

It really has pretty decent performance for its price point

Huh. That's pretty impressive. Would love a little more range (I do 1200 or so routinely but two 2 hour legs isn't the worst thing in the world).

What's your thought on Thrust Reversers and anti-lock brakes? Seems that about 1/2 the fleet has TRs, but I can't get a handle on how many have anti-lock brakes.

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2017, 23:13

Username Protected wrote:

Full fuel payload is a tad over 1200lbs, I'm fairly certain the empty weight includes 1 pilot so that's 1,370lbs

Realistic range is 1000 ifr and 1100 vfr

Tas cruise is 350kts burning 800pph or 120 gph at fl370

It really has pretty decent performance for its price point

Huh. That's pretty impressive. Would love a little more range (I do 1200 or so routinely but two 2 hour legs isn't the worst thing in the world).

What's your thought on Thrust Reversers and anti-lock brakes? Seems that about 1/2 the fleet has TRs, but I can't get a handle on how many have anti-lock brakes.

Robert

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2017, 23:22

I worked on the plane a bit today.

I cycled the emergency nitrogen brake system multiple times to reset the shuttle valves. Apparently, if this system isn't used, the valves can lock open and drip out skydrol with normal brake function. After cycling the emergency valve, I pumped the real brakes a million times and saw nothing dripping out the drain valve. I replenished the reservoir and topped off the nitrogen. I have a yellow tagged emergency brake handle and the shuttle valves on hand if this didn't fix the leak.

I replaced the pilots side gyro as it didn't want to always slave. Slaved right up with power so I think this problem is solved. I have a spare HSI on board if this wasn't the issue but I think it is.

I replaced the DME LRU with a yellow tagged unit, hopefully this fixes this problem. I know this is a useless instrument but I hate things that don't work.

The radar altimeter is still intermittent but the sender is under the cabin floorboard and I don't have enough energy this week to remove seats and chase this minor issue down.

I lubricated the slow to suck down right boot overflow valve and I think this suck down problem is fixed. I have a spare valve on board too if this wasn't this simple.

Flying out west on Friday. This is a simple, fun to work on plane. I'll report back on my fixes on Friday!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2017, 23:38

Back in the 80's, working for a corporate flight operation I flew their 501 and their Lear 35. The 501 was great for short fields that the Lear would'nt work on.

One common trip was to take the boss home on weekends, sometimes using the Lear, and sometimes the Citation. One might think that the Citation was more fuel efficient, but both planes used the same amount of fuel, but the Lear did the trip in less time. Houston Intercontinental to Witchita Falls, 290 nautical.

Citation 501sp