28 Apr 2024, 08:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 16:29 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6365 Post Likes: +5545 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Avantair were cannibalizing their whole fleet for spares. In the end, I think only 4 or 5 were airworthy, and customers were livid. The reason they were cannibalizing all the planes is because they owed Piaggio and all the parts centers millions and they refused to sell them any parts! Such tragic capital destruction. And irreparable damage on many of these aircraft - many will most likely never fly again. http://aviationweek.com/bca/avantair-failure-cautionary-tale-part-2
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
Last edited on 15 Nov 2017, 16:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 16:31 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14584 Post Likes: +22973 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Username Protected wrote: Two of them showed up at Palm Beach, same exact time, parked right next to each other tucked behind one of the big hangars. They have bags over the engines and they have sat parked since they showed up. that runway is only 10k feet, maybe too short to depart ?those things are ground hogs
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 18:50 |
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Joined: 08/08/12 Posts: 1458 Post Likes: +937
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Nooooooo! Adam, that would make you a gluten for punishment of an unprecedented magnitude.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:06 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 6336 Post Likes: +3820 Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Nooooooo! Adam, that would make you a gluten for punishment of an unprecedented magnitude. Yes, I think I'd stay "gluten-free" in this case.
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:46 |
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Joined: 08/09/11 Posts: 1740 Post Likes: +2062 Company: Naples Jet Center Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
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Username Protected wrote: Adam, I’ve recently received a masters degree in ex-Avantair planes and, while I know it’s fun on the internet, i would suggest getting this thing out of your head. Expensive and usually broken? Is that what happens?
The plane is neat but the performance comes with commensurate expense, no surprise really. But I was referring to Avantair’s bankruptcy and the auctions and court orders that have followed. You could buy a plane free and clear and then later find out that someone else owns the engines and props. It’s the craziest thing I have ever been involved with.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:56 |
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Joined: 01/18/11 Posts: 7691 Post Likes: +3687 Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
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What they say is the plane made one flight with new interior then the engines were put on another plane now in North Carolina. They are suing for their return. Otherwise they say the plane is intact with zero time props still in the box. Some items may be hitting service and calendar times.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 20:01 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6365 Post Likes: +5545 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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I just don't think they were built for hard fractional charter. These are Alfa Romeo's. 1000hrs/year is a bridge too far for these, they're better suited as corporate aircraft doing 500hrs or less per year, probably. But, to be honest, they wouldn't have ordered 57 of them if they didn't think they delivered in some way. It all went %#$@ up in the end, but I think that has little to do with the aircraft, but all about how the company was run. BTW, the most reliable car I ever was my old FIAT. Go figure. Username Protected wrote: What they say is the plane made one flight with new interior then the engines were put on another plane now in North Carolina. They are suing for their return. Otherwise they say the plane is intact with zero time props still in the box. Some items may be hitting service and calendar times. Did you speak to seller?
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 00:21 |
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Joined: 12/04/09 Posts: 352 Post Likes: +149
Aircraft: Dakota
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Username Protected wrote: I just don't think they were built for hard fractional charter. These are Alfa Romeo's. 1000hrs/year is a bridge too far for these, they're better suited as corporate aircraft doing 500hrs or less per year, probably. But, to be honest, they wouldn't have ordered 57 of them if they didn't think they delivered in some way. It all went %#$@ up in the end, but I think that has little to do with the aircraft, but all about how the company was run. Adam, your going to need to turn off your sunshine machine before you make a huge mistake I also just finished up with a customer determined to make the Avanti dream a reality. They may leave aviation forever after dealing with all of the heartache. Someday, when I graduate from therapy I'll share the nightmare with you.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 02:22 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6365 Post Likes: +5545 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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For posterity and those interested - aircraft is N106SL, not N107SL.
I wound up speaking to Dave Duncan from Piaggio and he said all the ex-Avantair P180's have a program in place to regain their airworthiness when it has been suspended by the FAA (it's not revoked). It basically involves flying a few engineers from Italy that go through the whole airplane and determine each parts assumed times and replacing the ones where the times can't be determined. Apparently the cost to have this done is $30K (minimum) plus any parts.
Current owner is also paying $2700/month for the hangar of this Avanti, so considering it's been sitting there for at least 4-5 years, that's a lot of money for nothing. I asked if the wings can be removed, and mr Duncan said no, it's not really possible. So whoever gets this airframe is kind of stuck paying $2700/month until it can fly out of there, which might be never. Of course, if they part it out they can just cut them off and truck it away.
Honestly, if the engines weren't so specific to the Avanti, and they were more common, I'd actually consider this project to have some merit. But the -66's are just impossible to find on the used market, so without them, it's a fool's errand. Only 7 of these engines were on the market last year according to Turbine Options and unless you had cores to exchange, you're looking at beacoup money.
BTW, another little tidbit was that the factory is working on extending the airframe hours from 15000 to over 20K hours and are doing comforming stress testing now on some of the oldest airframes. Apparently, the highest time Avanti has about 14500hrs on it.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
Last edited on 30 Dec 2017, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 30 Dec 2017, 09:57 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9168 Post Likes: +17163 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Adam, It would seem that if this airframe has any value, the factory should have appropriate interest. It appears, that for anyone else, it is a losing and pointless project from the "get go". The airplanes are not rare, irreplaceable, or historic. A turboprop or jet of similar performance can be bought quickly and easily. Even if someone undertook it, what value would they have: little I suspect. So, to me, the whole idea or "rescuing" this airplane is like . Just my opinion. jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Help me Avanti sleuth! Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 01:25 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6365 Post Likes: +5545 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: There were two Avanti's flying here at GTU... but they tried a low ceiling approach last week and now there is one. Looks like they came in hot and fast and locked breaks up and collapsed gear as they departed runway. Still no Avanti fatalities ever.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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