banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 18:05 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 13:40 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/09/12
Posts: 74
Post Likes: +11
Location: Tonica Il
Aircraft: TBM 700
What can you tell me about both? I had the opportunity to ride in Epic. Not much to say but awe inspiring. Garmin 900, and power to give. Never been in a TBM. I have looked at them. Just looking add thoughts on both. Was going to talk call some guys also to pick their brains. Thanks guys for all your feedback.
Ryan


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 15:12 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 09/19/10
Posts: 291
Post Likes: +128
Aircraft: TBM
Certified vs. Not Certified. All the plusses and minuses that go with that distinction comes into play ($, flexibility to add new stuff, supportability, possible handling characteristics, able to use for revenue flights (part-135), etc.). Otherwise reasonably similar planes. Epic is a bit larger.

Username Protected wrote:
What can you tell me about both? I had the opportunity to ride in Epic. Not much to say but awe inspiring. Garmin 900, and power to give. Never been in a TBM. I have looked at them. Just looking add thoughts on both. Was going to talk call some guys also to pick their brains. Thanks guys for all your feedback.
Ryan


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 16:20 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 6058
Post Likes: +4635
Insurance


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 19:19 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Certified v. Non Certified as has already been posted. It's a big deal.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 20:20 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3302
Post Likes: +1424
Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
An experimental airplane like the Epic is worth nothing to me, personally. If I'm going to pay that much $, I want a certified bird that is FIKI and has gone through ALL the testing and rigors of certification.

That said, I do find the cabin of the Epic very appealing as well as the performance. I had a chance to see one recently at a shop that was working on my Cirrus. When I peeked inside the cabin, the smell of mildew hit me in the face. The mechanic said they have a known problem with moisture that collects somewhere in the bottom of the fuselage. It didn't sound like there was a good fix to entirely eliminate it. This (as well as the poor fit and finish all around) we're just other examples of the compromises made in going the experimental route.

If it were my decision, I would take whatever budget I had and buy the best used TBM I could afford.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 20:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/09/12
Posts: 74
Post Likes: +11
Location: Tonica Il
Aircraft: TBM 700
Jason,
Could you please elaborate on your comment.
Ryan


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 21:05 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4784
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
An experimental airplane like the Epic is worth nothing to me, personally. If I'm going to pay that much $, I want a certified bird that is FIKI and has gone through ALL the testing and rigors of certification.

That said, I do find the cabin of the Epic very appealing as well as the performance. I had a chance to see one recently at a shop that was working on my Cirrus. When I peeked inside the cabin, the smell of mildew hit me in the face. The mechanic said they have a known problem with moisture that collects somewhere in the bottom of the fuselage. It didn't sound like there was a good fix to entirely eliminate it. This (as well as the poor fit and finish all around) we're just other examples of the compromises made in going the experimental route.

If it were my decision, I would take whatever budget I had and buy the best used TBM I could afford.


I think the fit and finish of the new ones is truly exceptional. Mirror smooth paint and very small gaps with great seams. The interiors seemed better than most. Maybe this quality improvement is a natural progression of later serial numbers; similar to Cirrus. Let's all remember the early Cirri had Chevy Malibu quality and the new ones are very high end. All "homebuilts" have varying degrees of quality so I think that's the good and bad of experimental aviation. Caveat emptor.

I get this niche and think this is probably a wonderful airplane for the right person. I hope they get it certified and sell lots of them.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 06:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6059
Post Likes: +702
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
TBM you can buy new now, EPIC is dreamware for now.

Its easy to travel internationally with a TBM, not so much with an homebuilt.

Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 06:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

It's borderline pointless now for them to pursue certification now much less in 10 years. Too much competition in the space now. Epic would be a $4MM plane if it were certified.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 07:56 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 08/03/13
Posts: 2108
Post Likes: +3295
Location: SW Colorado
Aircraft: C182
Typing this from Cozumel where I arrived in an Epic LT. The plane and my brother flew around the world last year. Some countries do have a problem with experimental. I'm guessing the E1000 certified may be out around the first of the year. Carbon fiber ac are required to go through very different testing parameters tha AL. I understand they are now 3.25 million each. I've seen test articles 1 and two. Epic has a well funded and incredible operation in Bend where they now have the Columbia/Cessna plant as well as the original Epic facility. I believe it is a very efficient AC.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 08:58 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8012
Post Likes: +5715
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
Username Protected wrote:
Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

It's borderline pointless now for them to pursue certification now much less in 10 years. Too much competition in the space now. Epic would be a $4MM plane if it were certified.


PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:02 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14529
Post Likes: +22858
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Username Protected wrote:
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

I can see Jason't point, history shows that civilian aviation is a small market and any segment will eventually consolidate until it is dominated by 2 or 3 players.
Boeing and Airbus.
Bombardier and Embraer
Thrush and Air Tractor
Textron and Cirrus
Vans and ... (ok that's a bad example)


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 09/19/10
Posts: 291
Post Likes: +128
Aircraft: TBM
Mike Ciholas isn't around to make bets with Jason, so I'll bet lunch that EPIC doesn't deliver 5 certified E1000's before 18 months from today (that's giving them an extra year). I'd love to see it, but skeptical it will happen at all, much less within 6 months.

Username Protected wrote:
Typing this from Cozumel where I arrived in an Epic LT. The plane and my brother flew around the world last year. Some countries do have a problem with experimental. I'm guessing the E1000 certified may be out around the first of the year. Carbon fiber ac are required to go through very different testing parameters tha AL. I understand they are now 3.25 million each. I've seen test articles 1 and two. Epic has a well funded and incredible operation in Bend where they now have the Columbia/Cessna plant as well as the original Epic facility. I believe it is a very efficient AC.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:22 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 09/19/10
Posts: 291
Post Likes: +128
Aircraft: TBM
Denali is well along in their process... that makes 4 significant manufacturers of 6-9 seat SETPs.

Username Protected wrote:
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.


Top

 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:43 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
\
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

PC12
Denali
TBM
Piper
SF50
HondaJet
M2
Not to mention the used market.

A $4MM Epic would be at the bottom of my list.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.midwest2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.