Engines are where the big single items are, so if you assume healthy (or $ set aside for known unhealthy) components such as turbos, wastegates, controllers, etc., then you are left with a long collection of relatively small items that all contribute to overall healthy operation.

Boots - will last many years if cared for, it they're bad their not cheap to replace ($5k-ish each)

Windshield - if the airframe is near the 4800 hr mark and has NOT had the 5.5 psi upgrade you will need to do either the windshield ($15k-ish) or the pressure upgrade ($30k-ish).

If the airplane can go right up to altitude (low 20's at least) and keep stable max cabin diff, stable engine temps and pressures, heating and cooling work well, then there's not likely any serious problem in the systems. Problems with any of that list will indicate minor to major causes contributing to them. For example, if you have cabin diff or heating issues there are a number of hoses large and small in the airframe that can cause all kinds of little anomalies. They are durable and last a long time, but some can be expensive to replace and some previous owners just simply haven't put the dollars in in regular chunks, they just wait to leave a whole bunch of stuff worn out for the next owner.

I wouldn't consider buying an Aerostar without having one of the known gurus (of which there are several on the East Coast not far from you) go through the airplane on a pre-buy. The design is robust, simple, and reliable. Previous owners are not. Don't get stuck paying for their catch-up unless you know what you have going in and pay a price reflecting that. Be willing to pay for good mechanical current condition.

I'm sure the regular crowd will chime in, there's a bunch of good knowledge in the BT Aerostar crowd. Call Jim Christy at AAC. Extrenely knowledgable and extremely helpful.

Electric Door Seal pump.

A slight leak in the door seal or in the check valve will result in excessive cycling, excessive (it doesn't take much) cycling will take out your pneumatic pumps.

Flat tire, change tube when you change tire.

Dead battery, the Aerosonic fuel flow gauge uses a little power to keep the fuel count in memory, if you aren't going flying in less than two weeks it is a good idea to leave it switched off.

100 HR AD items -come up with a way to track when you are due for next inspection.

The one that got me was the cork seal on the bottom of the main tank. Two mechanics for two weeks to replace the cork seal.
Otherwise, it was all standard stuff, alternators, vacuum pumps, avionics....

Tim

Forrest and JGG,

I am enjoying this thread. Is the air conditioner not effective on the ground?

Forrest and JGG,

I am enjoying this thread. Is the air conditioner not effective on the ground?

Frank,

The electric A/C works as well as "any" other piston unit I've used, only it uses a lot of amperage. Unless you have the "big" alternators that work well at low RPM's, you have to keep the engine RPM's up around 1500, if memory serves, to keep the amperage to the A/C. Forrest will recall all the details.

I just run the fan on the ground which keeps it bearable. I'm not a big "fan" of taxiing with the upper door open, but if hot enough, I will. Just have to remember to keep the door seal deflated while doing so.

Aerostar has the mod for the mechanical system that probably makes sense. Not sure of cost. I suspect it ups your useful load as well.

Jgreen

I have the engine driven system. Works very well....you won't be looking for a sweater if it's 100 degrees outside, but it does a great job. You do have to regularly check the pulley alignment and belt tension.

Everyone's experience is different because every airplane has had different maintenance, upgrades and operators. My Aerostar has been maintained essentially to a 135 standard. In my years of ownership I have only been AOG once for a failed ignition switch. The most fragile part of the airplane in my opinion are the wastegates and turbochargers. In my opinion once the turbos pass about 500 hours they become a crapshoot. I keep a pair on the shelf ready to go and can R&R a turbo in about 5 or 6 hours.

I had a left side of the engine turbo last 1800 hours and in that same period replaced the right side one two times (once because it exploded). The telltale sign of a turbo headed south is a small amount of oil trailing back from the exhaust. When you see that it usually means (IMHO) that you have about 100 hours to go.

If the engine is oily there is a obvious problem as the sealing technology on these engines is pretty good. You can spend a lot of time and money chasing oil leaks so if you have a wet looking engine you need to find the source. These airplanes are not bad to own provided that you don't let the problems pile up. My advice is that when you see a problem fix it then -- don't kick the can to the annual.

There are a lot of Aerostar "experts" out there but I have found that the best resource is Jim Christy. He has helped me troubleshoot my way through problems on several occasions and provides an invaluable resource. Also, I have found that virtually everything that I have needed for the plane was in stock and available overnight when necessary. On my other airplanes I cannot always say the same thing.

The good news is that the plane flies beautifully on one engine and (for my model) will climb very respectfully on one. Every oil change you really need to exercise and lubricate the wastegate shafts or they will get stiff. I had a wastegate hang up once that ultimately caused a crack in the bracket that secures the cross-shaft.

Buy the best maintained and most expensive Aerostar that you can afford -- it will be cheaper over time.

By the time you think you have every angle covered, something you never though of will creep up and cost you a bundle. Don't ever think you have everything covered because you don't. It's the nature of the beast.

Many if not most of the Aerostar's produced and still flying are better than 40 yrs. old, some are quickly approaching 50. Most, in my opinion, from what I have seen have been severely neglected and those that appear to have been maintained have not been maintained properly. You are not buying a brand new airplane.

As has been mentioned earlier, find an Aerostar "guru" to do an in depth comprehensive pre-buy and even then don't expect the guru to catch everything. Things that were not discovered during the pre-buy or just not broken have a tendency to automatically appear, or break about a month after you take ownership.
You will not find the perfect Aerostar, it's just not there. Even new planes come with warranties for a reason, they break, right out of the factory. Don't expect a 40 yr. old Aerostar to perform any where near a new plane.

All that being said, Aerostar has some of the best support of any legacy aircraft if not the best.
Literally any part or information about an Aerostar is immediately available via Aerostar Corporation. Just pick up the phone and call them. They hold the certificate for the Aerostar including a whole lot of performance upgrades.

The Aerostar community is strong and active meeting twice a year. There are two forums available to join. One is free, the other one will cost you about $200.00 to join. I strongly suggest joining both. There is a widely distributed network of maintenance facilities throughout the country of people who KNOW Aerostar's, not just people who work on them. These people can be found on the forums.

I have completely refurbished one Aerostar 600, 1969, that was originally headed to the scrap yard for 1/4 the cost of a new NA Baron. Airframe inspected, rebuilt as necessary, all, and I mean all new glass, no pumps, new interior, new paint, overhauled K1J5s. I am in the process of refurbishing a second Aerostar.

I love the plane, especially the NAs. They fly like a sports car. They are just to much fun and what ramp presence. I have yet to go anywhere where it does not draw curiosity and comment.
To this day I cannot understand how this airplane is not being produced. If you understand the design, the designer and history including physically crawling through the entire airframe you will understand and become and Aerostar convert. It is what it is.
Fly safe.

Oh, by the way, there are several different models of Aerostar's, (600s, 600As, 601s, 601As, 601Bs, 601Ps, 602Ps, 700s, not to mention all of the possible upgrades. Know what you are looking at and what the differences are.

Brad....keep in mind there is a significant difference in maintenance costs between the 600 and the other models....turbos,pressurization, air conditioning,windshield,....and fuel burn

Thanks to all for the replies.
I was the proud "mental" owner of a beautiful Aerostar for 2 whole hours.
The owner accepted my offer yesterday afternoon and two hours later broker said he decided to keep it. I am disappointed and hope he changes his mind but not mad at anybody. If there had been a handshake or a signed contract I would feel differently.

Maybe I can twist his arm to give me a ride.

Anyway, I know what I want and will try to make myself be patient to find the right one.
It's not like I am suffering in my Columbia.

Hang in there.

Selling an Aerostar isn't an easy emotional decision.

Seller had a reason for selling, likely it hasn't gone away.

Go back to looking, if you don't find a better plane give the owner a call 3-4 weeks prior to the month it's due for its annual.

Be nice, tell him you respected his decision when he changed his mind, but you really like his plane, and you would be happy to stand by your offer.

(Don't mention the upcoming annual, he knows...)

Make sure he has your number.

If he likes you it will be easier to let his baby go.


One thing:

Test flight to altitude on way to pre-buy inspection isn't negotiable.

Hello BT,



Hello Forrest,







First off. Thanks for all your input. I wish I could have met you when you came down to San Diego. Unfortunately, I was in Mexico at the time. Maybe next time.

With JG selling his plane, you will be the next BT Aerostar guru!!!



Question; Could you elaborate on your quote. What would be on your list of things to check on at altitude in the Aerostar that might not be obvious.



Thanks.

Don,

I assure you, I am not one of the A* "gurus".

My buyer has withdrawn because of "medical" issues that he thought were going to get ironed out.

The chances of me selling my Aerostar are between slim and none. I'm probably going to pull the ads; never been so ambivalent about anything in my life. Love the airplane just don't fly it and don't have the patience for airplane talkers.

Maybe I'll figure out someplace I want to go.

Jgreen

Don, I am far from a guru.

10 years and about 1800 hours of ownership and I'm still learning stuff, sometimes I end up learning something a second time.

Here is an incomplete list of what to look for on a test flight:
(The guru who is going to be doing your pre-buy will give you additional items to watch (out) for)

First, bring a pen and paper, to write down numbers and observations.

The recorder should not be the one doing the flying, and keep in mind the purpose of the flight is to evaluate operation of the airplane, NOT demonstrate how nice an Aerostar flies.

On your walk around verify the tail pipes are secure and look for oils leaks, if necessary wipe down the underside and flap before starting up. Have someone hold the control wheel in a wings level position, verify the ailerons are in the same position.

You should hear the electric fuel valves come on when they are turned on and hear a second motor noise when "cross feed" is selected.

Deplete the accumulator by moving the flaps up and down, listen for the aux hydraulic pump coming on, and notice the pressure where it came on, switch it off and watch for the point when the hydraulic pressure rapidly goes to "0", that is the accumulator pressure (write those numbers down for the mechanic)

A cold start should take 5-10 seconds of prime,

When the starter is engaged the you don't want to hear grinding or failure to engage.

Engine should fire off in less than 5 seconds, and run smoothly at 700-1000 rpm after a few seconds of warming up/burning off the prime. Hydraulic pressure should come up rapidly. (5-10 sec). Turn Aux. Hydraulic Pump "on"

Alternators should come on line when switched "on" and amps should be matched. Volts should be 26-28 V. (Ideally 26.5-27.5) Record numbers.

Do POH before taxi and Run Up check lists check List should be within limits, (mag drop and all gauges) for each check. Verify nose wheel steering opearates correctly.
Write down what you see.

Try out the air conditioning (if it is electric, record the amp draw with it on. Note whether the air coming out of the ducts is getting cool.

On take off, power and MAP should come up smoothly and with throttle levers generally matched. Check gauges, record numbers.

Time gear retraction, gear should be up and gear "up" light should be on with in 15 seconds, record the time and note how fast the plane is going at retraction.

Watch for cylinder head, EGTs, %#$@, and oil temps and fuel flow variations in the climb.

Turbos should maintain fairly constant MAP in the climb, pressurization should be able to develop rated differential (4.3 or 5.5). Note how much throttle is needed to maintain climb MAP, and at what altitude each engine is at full throttle and is no longer able to maintain MAP.

In cruise, set 75% power for at least 5 minutes and 55% power at minimum RPM (for that power setting) for five minutes, record all numbers at the end of the five minutes, lower RPM and high altitude is where a weak turbo system will show up, setting higher RPMs can obscure a weak turbo system.

Try out the heater, including the temperature control.

Verify the auto pilot can maintain altitude and operates correctly.

Call ATC on both radios

Turn on the radar and verify it shows ground returns when tilted down and the returns disappear when tilted up.

Ask ATC what altitude they are seeing, and compare with your altitude.

Old the control wheel in the wings level position, verify the plane doesn't drop either wing.

On descent, leave power set at cruise, verify MAP on one or the other engine doesn't rise significantly at lower altitudes.

Write down everything.

Navigate with GPS and VOR and confirm that VORs and ILS are within limits.

Verify everything in the panel works (or doesn't).

After landing look for oil leaks, and record anything that's new since your pre-flight walk around.

Explain your notes to the inspecting mechanic.


Last piece of wisdom:

It is foolish to use the pre-buy as an opportunity to get multiple last bites of the apple, the goal is to avoid an expensive surprise between today and your next annual.

Have already discussed and agreed on how you'll handle any discrepancies that are uncovered.
When you get done, both buyer and seller should feel like they got a good deal.

And,

Have fun!