20 Jan 2026, 15:58 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50  Posted: 01 May 2017, 13:38 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8870
Post Likes: +11584
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Today you can transition from a 172 to a 182... to a Caravan... to CJ3... to a Latitude... and never leave the Cessna family. They won on brand extension. Lear had no entry level airplane to feed the brand. Who would do that progression, no one. I don't believe "progressing up the brand chain" is a real thing.
Trained in a 172, purchased a 501 back in the 70's, a Citation II or two... maybe a V... now they have a CJ2 or CJ4... sure it happens!
A more common theme is Cessna 421 - King Air - Citation II - CJ whatever...
My friend with a CJ4 went Bonanza-Baron-501-CJ2+ -CJ4
He is still considering a Latitude when he could buy anything he wants... that is brand loyalty.
We are doing a CJ1 right now, one positive is that they'll be able to move up the line easily as their budget increases.
_________________
Be kind. You never know what someone is going through.
Last edited on 01 May 2017, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 14:48 |
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6065
Post Likes: +719
Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Not quit, In Canada anyway, the SE jets will cost a lot more in landing, parking, ramp fees and NavCanada fees also because it is a jet. Username Protected wrote: Single engine turboprops are also single engine jets, the fact the engine turns a prop is of little consequence.
Ka Boom. Totally agree. As for my opinion regarding "spending $1MM+ on a piston plane".... I'm just relaying what the market is saying. The Market doesn't lie. Yes, SR22's are "close to $1MM" but they're not "over $1MM". I'm talking about the "over $1MM" piston planes.
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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 15:37 |
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 934
Post Likes: +475
Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: C525,C25A,C25C,CL604
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Username Protected wrote: Who would do that progression, no one. I don't believe "progressing up the brand chain" is a real thing. I was close, 1)PA28 2)C210 3)C340A 4)C525 Next....CJ3+  Andrew.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 15:58 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8870
Post Likes: +11584
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Who would do that progression, no one. I don't believe "progressing up the brand chain" is a real thing. I was close, 1)PA28 2)C210 3)C340A 4)C525 Next....CJ3+ Andrew.
We won't hold the Cherokee against you... it was your first airplane. Great airplane to learn to fly in. 
Unless it was a 235... then we won't hold it against you at all!
_________________
Be kind. You never know what someone is going through.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 17:08 |
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Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 19248
Post Likes: +31368
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
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I went Tn A-36 A-55 Baron P-Baron C90 King Air Citation II (but decided the C90 is fine now.) Kind of what my insurance rep suggest and why I got early gray hair 
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Dave Siciliano, ATP
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 20:59 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 8236
Post Likes: +7972
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: The Eclipse bankruptcy documents revealed they had an OEM supplier agreement with PWC for about $250K/engine. Corrected for inflation, this is about $320K now.
Williams is supplying the FJ33-5A to Cirrus for about $650K each. Given that it costs near $1M to overhaul an FJ33 (by similarity with the FJ44), it won't be much cheaper than that.
When corrected for inflation, the Eclipse went out the door at about the same price as the SF50, actually a touch cheaper.
My world is based on facts. I know they are out of fashion lately, but do give them a try sometime.
Are those alternative facts? I'd love to see those bankruptcy documents, where are they? $250K for a jet engine is not realistic... unless it was based on 5,000 units a year, or whatever crazy number Eclipse projected back then to squeeze the suppliers. Find our how much PwC is charging Eclipse for the new engines now, then we'll talk.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 21:11 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 8236
Post Likes: +7972
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
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Username Protected wrote: The "so what" is that Apple filled existing markets, and Cirrus did so with the SR22.
Apple didn't fill the market, Apple expanded the market many times over. Many millions of people (me included) had no interest in a Blackberry or Palm Treo or whatever other gawdawful contraptions existed before Apple, but once iPhone came out, everyone had to have one. That's the genius of Jobs, he knew what kind of product people would want to have. Very much like Cirrus. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 21:11 |
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 5337
Post Likes: +5393
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
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Username Protected wrote: The Eclipse bankruptcy documents revealed they had an OEM supplier agreement with PWC for about $250K/engine. Corrected for inflation, this is about $320K now.
Williams is supplying the FJ33-5A to Cirrus for about $650K each. Given that it costs near $1M to overhaul an FJ33 (by similarity with the FJ44), it won't be much cheaper than that.
When corrected for inflation, the Eclipse went out the door at about the same price as the SF50, actually a touch cheaper.
My world is based on facts. I know they are out of fashion lately, but do give them a try sometime.
Are those alternative facts? I'd love to see those bankruptcy documents, where are they? $250K for a jet engine is not realistic... unless it was based on 5,000 units a year, or whatever crazy number Eclipse projected back then to squeeze the suppliers. Find our how much PwC is charging Eclipse for the new engines now, then we'll talk.
As far as I know NO 610 Eclipse motor has been built since 2007; if there are any zero time ones left, they are all new old stock. I highly doubt another new one will ever get built.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 21:22 |
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Joined: 10/31/14
Posts: 560
Post Likes: +268
Aircraft: eclipse
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Mike
Wrong again new engines are being built. I heard that there were 20 leftover engines from old Eclipse but I expect to get two brand new ones in August.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 01 May 2017, 21:29 |
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Joined: 10/31/14
Posts: 560
Post Likes: +268
Aircraft: eclipse
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Tony To go with a new airplane
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 02 May 2017, 22:32 |
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 17109
Post Likes: +29124
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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must be a mistake. pretty soon they will realize that it has only one engine and no propeller, and revoke the certificate. Either that or issue an emergency AD to add the missing engine. AMOC will be to add a propellor
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