01 Nov 2025, 04:57 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II  Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 23:14 |
|
 |
|
|
Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
|
|
Username Protected wrote: All depends what you hit and what your VSI is. You give yourself a chance of bouncing off of something at a low VS and getting a climb going. Better chance of survival with the struts taking an impact as you hold a nose up attitude then pancake the belly. Better chance to avoid ground contact altogether if gear is up. Quote: Could be a farm field below you. The potential for a farm field, which seems rare at airport Citations frequent, is why they recommend hampering the climb performance with gear out? Mike C.
I suggest you discuss it with the FAA and training centers when you get your type rating.
You can try flying it in the sim your way and see what happens.
_________________
Allen
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 24 Mar 2017, 23:24 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/05/15
Posts: 381
Post Likes: +104
Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
|
|
Username Protected wrote: We are talking about leaving gear down in a microburst that is trying to drive you into the ground. Precisely what my question is about. You want to give the airplane all the climb performance it can get to avoid hitting the ground. Why leave the gear down in that circumstance? Mike C.
Mike,
You answered your own question a few posts back. If the 10 feet you lost during gear retraction puts you in the trees or mud or whatever, then the 10 you gain back 5 seconds later or the 1000 feet you gain 30 seconds later are not going to mean squat. It's about surviving at that very second and living to fight the next second and the next.
Stewart
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 25 Mar 2017, 01:51 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14536
Post Likes: +12333
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
|
|
Username Protected wrote: In the CJ2 when starting the circle you go to HDG on the AP and drive it around with the HDG bug, with ALT HOLD maintaining MDA, until you get on base and visual on the 31 runway. Then go to flaps land, and then click AP off and descend and turn to the runway. And add a bit of power back at the MDA. Andrew
Geesh...I take blondie out for a quiet dinner and I miss three pages. Last time I do th...what am I saying? Carry on. 
The CTL wasn't particularly good. MDA was 640. AP dipped a bit below. I was going to use alt hold and heading but felt like AP was acting up. Part of that is the result of never trusting anything in the sim. It did balloon a bit but the camera angle wasn't perfect so it looks like I went back into the clouds. I didn't.
I do make a turn to final that is tighter than optimum. But with such a long runway it doesn't phase me too much. Do the same thing in the actual video at kdpk.
I actually lost sight of 31R last year on my checkride and missed. I think I am a little eager to keep it in sight as a result.
Yes I should have bumped power at level off. Got a touch slow as a result. The sim is so hard when it comes to subtle power adjustments.
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 25 Mar 2017, 03:02 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 02/26/11
Posts: 483
Post Likes: +289
Location: Fort Worth, TX
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I've never quite understood the "positive rate, gear up" thing.
Leaving the gear down hurts climb performance at any airspeed. You have a better chance of not hitting the ground if you retract it.
Mike C. I actually agree with Mike C here. At all of my recurrents I have wondered the same thing. Usually wind sheer hits at a couple hundred feet, and they are adamant about no configure changes. My thought it that I am willing to sacrifice a few feet while at a couple hundred feet so that I can get a way better climb performance once the gear is up. Obviously, if I'm skimming the trees by 10 feet I'm not going to bring the gear up at that point.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 15:46 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20720
Post Likes: +26149
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Does the gear have to be down to get the cabin door open? Not that I am aware of. Some planes have an interlock if pressurized. But loss of power, bleed air, or cabin integrity would release that (at least, that is so in my plane). Any interlock would not affect the emergency exit. Mike C.
_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 16:50 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Does the gear have to be down to get the cabin door open? Not that I am aware of. Some planes have an interlock if pressurized. But loss of power, bleed air, or cabin integrity would release that (at least, that is so in my plane). Any interlock would not affect the emergency exit. Mike C.
No need for an interlock. My understanding is the pressurization pressure on the door pins will keep you from opening the door.
With loss of bleed air source cabin can stay pressurized for a while if it is tight. Loss of power causes cabin dump valve to open and cabin to depressurize.
Gear down does not depressurize the cabin but weight on wheels with the squat switch tells the aircraft to depressurize. Normally the pressurization controller is set to field elevation so the cabin is already at field elevation by the time weight is on wheels.
_________________
Allen
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 17:25 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 09/05/12
Posts: 6976
Post Likes: +5174
Location: Portland, OR (KHIO)
Aircraft: 1962 Bonanza P35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Mark, you have way too much fun. It is starting to piss me off.  And seaplane season hasn't even started.
_________________
Paul
I heart flying
ABS Lifetime Member
EAA Lifetime Member
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 18:26 |
|
|
|
|
 |
Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4787
Post Likes: +2499
Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
|
|
Mark, you are a brave man to post your sim sessions!.... Mike, ....talk to FSI about wind shear. The wind may be vertical, you need to worry about pitching for the " relative wind". (not the gear position) Allen, Quote: No need for an interlock. My understanding is the pressurization pressure on the door pins will keep you from opening the door.
I would agree, until that King Air door killed the mechanic who opened it on the ground during a pressurization test. Jeff ( sadly, just returned our CJ4 to Cessna KICT....Boss got a 10, no type, and unlikely at my age...)
_________________
Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 18:53 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
|
|
Username Protected wrote:
Jeff ( sadly, just returned our CJ4 to Cessna KICT....Boss got a 10, no type, and unlikely at my age...)
That was quick. How long did he have the 4? What year 10? Can you be the SIC in the 10 without the full type?
_________________
Allen
|
|
| Top |
|
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 26 Mar 2017, 19:10 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4787
Post Likes: +2499
Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
|
|
I was on the 4 for 3 years....time flies. We swapped airplanes in the middle of a 16 day trip, I hope to get an SIC check...just want to see .90 in cruise. Not sure of the year, it is used.. Cessna refurb. Honeywell I think.
_________________
Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|
