21 Jan 2026, 09:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II  Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 00:37 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Holy crap...that is scary. You are on the ground safe. All else is secondary. Congrats! Yep. Thanks. Having the time to test and experiment was key. This was SP so it's not like I had a helper. Good reason for 2 pilots but not good enough  I wasn't scared...focused...a little uncertain...but not shook.
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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 00:47 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Do you think it was trim motor failure, or a hardware failure of sorts? Or just jammed somehow? Trim motor worked fine. Some how it feels like the cable slipped so it is hitting stop prematurely. How, why? No idea.
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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 00:51 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: what would be the harm in declaring. I'm of the opinion this was a true frigging emergency?
Woulda had help in descents.........
damn fine work, but I believe declaring is a good thing in this particular scenario... Well is it worth the brain drain? What would change? I was basically direct. Practically speaking you gain nothing but a paperwork nightmare. If I need priority then yes. But I was happy to take my time and test.
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 00:53 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: what would be the harm in declaring. I'm of the opinion this was a true frigging emergency?
Woulda had help in descents.........
damn fine work, but I believe declaring is a good thing in this particular scenario... Well is it worth the brain drain? What would change? I was basically direct.
More help and understanding in the decent. I've no knowledge of the Citation trim system, but what you described is a very hairy situation.
Serious kudos.........
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---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 00:56 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Had a new employee..first day...aboard. Given meltdown girl I decided to call her forward. Pretty nonchalant. "Old problem emerging....need to get it back to SDL where mechanics can jump right on it. " Pointed out other planes and landmarks. Really trying to keep her calm. Worked.  She now thinks all pilots fly with their knees on the yoke.  You earned your test pilot wings today. It will be interesting to find out what caused the problem. Do you run the trim full up and down as part of your ground checks?
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:05 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Had a new employee..first day...aboard. Given meltdown girl I decided to call her forward. Pretty nonchalant. "Old problem emerging....need to get it back to SDL where mechanics can jump right on it. " Pointed out other planes and landmarks. Really trying to keep her calm. Worked. Do you run the trim full up and down as part of your ground checks?
Not as often as I should. Not sure it would have revealed anything. It would have shown full down but the plane needed more. On the ground it wouldn't have revealed that. If you knew the time between full up and full down you might have detected something was amiss if it took less or more time.
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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:06 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3038
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote:
Practically speaking you gain nothing but a paperwork nightmare. If I need priority then yes. But I was happy to take my time and test.
You ever declare and get a paperwork nightmare? I had a cabin depressurization at FL330 and declared and did an emergency descent. Never got any follow up call. Another time I heard more air noise then normal after the cabin started pressurizing and told ATC I wanted to return to base. Didn't declare but ATC reported it to the FSDO and they followed up with a phone call asking what the repair was. Note that a flight control system malfunction is an NTSB 830.5 reportable event http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=36418957aeb9385b90ae9a44f4a8d1cd&mc=true&node=pt49.7.830&rgn=div5#se49.7.830_15
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Allen
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:09 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: More help and understanding in the decent. I've no knowledge of the Citation trim system, but what you described is a very hairy situation.
Serious kudos......... Thanks. Lots of possible bad outcomes. Kid gloves. What if the cable is jammed and breaks? Happened on my 310. This is a 14,000lb aircraft. Do I have the strength? The mind was solid. Weather stellar.
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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
Last edited on 31 Jan 2017, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:12 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote:
Practically speaking you gain nothing but a paperwork nightmare. If I need priority then yes. But I was happy to take my time and test.
You ever declare and get a paperwork nightmare? I had a cabin depressurization at FL330 and declared and did an emergency descent. Never got any follow up call. Another time I heard more air noise then normal after the cabin started pressurizing and told ATC I wanted to return to base. Didn't declare but ATC reported it to the FSDO and they followed up with a phone call asking what the repair was. Note that a flight control system malfunction is an NTSB 830.5 reportable event http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=36418957aeb9385b90ae9a44f4a8d1cd&mc=true&node=pt49.7.830&rgn=div5#se49.7.830_15
Yeah. Knew that 830.5. Or suspected it. All I know about paperwork i learned on the Internet. 
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:20 |
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14732
Post Likes: +12508
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: Way to pull it off Mark. All pro for me. Make me feel like the weekend warrior i am, at least today. got my VIRB today. already task saturated.  And of course I said no VIRB today. Nothing interesting going to happen. Damn the bad bad luck.
_________________
Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
"Jet Elite"
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