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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 09:53 
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Joined: 11/01/08
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Username Protected wrote:
You guys all need a P180 Avanti. Leave everyone of these planes in the dust.


I can't remember the last time I even heard an Avanti on the radio or saw one anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 10:29 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
I see maybe 2 P180's a year and I'm on a lot of ramps.

For me, even CJ3 and CJ4 are more appealing than Phenom because I can get the CJ's serviced at a moments notice at my home airport. The Phenom will need to be flown to Greenville NC. PITA.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 12:03 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
For exactly the opposite reason, I appreciate having a TP.

Yup.

If you run a company and get a jet, you will have every employee in your office asking for a raise and every client wondering if they pay too much.

If you have a turboprop, none of that occurs.

Jet = rich, turboprop = practical, whether true or not.

Mike C.

I haven't found that to be the case at all.
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Previous A36TN owner


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 20:06 
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Joined: 06/23/09
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Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
Flew from KIKK to ft Myers today. Bucked a 100 knot headwind most of the way. Actually saw 124 knots on the nose at one time. Died down once into Florida. Flight time was 4:30.
I landed with 60 gallons of fuel. Would a phenom 100 or a Mustang do that? With that being said.....I crossed a frontal boundary at 310 that kicked my ass. All the jets said tops were 370. I guess 410 would have been nice to get over the bumps!!


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 20:56 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8734
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Having flown a lot in the flag the last few weeks, which requires the inertial separator and going slow does make me think about the advantage of high altitude. Even RVSM would be nice as I've been just below the tops on several occasions. Still Michael the TBM is a remarkably versatile machine!


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 20:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yup.

If you run a company and get a jet, you will have every employee in your office asking for a raise and every client wondering if they pay too much.

If you have a turboprop, none of that occurs.

Jet = rich, turboprop = practical, whether true or not.

Mike C.

I haven't found that to be the case at all.


Same here. My employees are excited that we have a jet. There can be bad apples, but it is usually best to get rid of them before they cause more trouble. I used to be hesitant about which car I drove to work. No more. I thinned the herd and drive and fly whatever I want. Just treat your people right.

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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 20:59 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8734
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:

Same here. My employees are excited that we have a jet. There can be bad apples, but it is usually best to get rid of them before they cause more trouble. I used to be hesitant about which car I drove to work. No more. I thinned the herd and drive and fly whatever I want. Just treat your people right.


:clap: :thumbup: :woot:


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 21:14 
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Joined: 12/21/14
Posts: 73
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Location: KCAK
Aircraft: Phenom 300, Bell 407
Username Protected wrote:
I see maybe 2 P180's a year and I'm on a lot of ramps.

For me, even CJ3 and CJ4 are more appealing than Phenom because I can get the CJ's serviced at a moments notice at my home airport. The Phenom will need to be flown to Greenville NC. PITA.


The Embraer service network is growing rapidly. They will drive 30 minutes to my hangar and do most work there. Larger inspections are a short flight away. In my case, a lot closer than Cessna.

(Don't misread me here, Cesnna has an excellent service network)


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 21:25 
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Joined: 12/21/14
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Location: KCAK
Aircraft: Phenom 300, Bell 407
Username Protected wrote:
What is the Phenom 100 range with 4 people in the back? I heard it wasn't good hot & high??


Which is why they came out with the 100EV.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2017, 23:55 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Flew from KIKK to ft Myers today. Bucked a 100 knot headwind most of the way. Actually saw 124 knots on the nose at one time. Died down once into Florida. Flight time was 4:30.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N700 ... /KIKK/KFMY

Quote:
I landed with 60 gallons of fuel. Would a phenom 100 or a Mustang do that?

Probably.

You basically found the fastest headwinds at FL310. At BNA sounding (something close to your route), winds 113 knots at 230 degrees.

The jets would go to FL410. Up there, the winds were 55 knots at 251 degrees from the BNA sounding. So the wind shifted to essentially 90 degrees cross and much less.

Thus I think the Mustang or Phenom 100 would make the 950 nm trip reasonably as they have NBAA IFR ranges of 1,150 nm and 1,178 nm.

Had you descended to FL270, the sounding says 70 knots at 230 degrees, so 43 knots less. I bet that would have been less fuel than FL310 despite the fuel flow increase. Would certainly be less time.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 00:12 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
There's a few nice things about being able to go to FL410. You can get out of some tough winds, you can get above the weather, and you can find smoother air. I did a trip to Southern Cal and back a month ago. Going down, I enjoyed a 150kt tailwind at FL350, and on the return I had a 50kt headwind at FL400. That's like a 50kt tailwind both directions.

Regardless, in a Mustang, you want to be landing by 3.5 hrs with max cruise. For LRC, 4.0 hrs is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 01:59 
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Joined: 12/04/09
Posts: 356
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Aircraft: Dakota
Quote:
Same here. My employees are excited that we have a jet. There can be bad apples, but it is usually best to get rid of them before they cause more trouble. I used to be hesitant about which car I drove to work. No more. I thinned the herd and drive and fly whatever I want. Just treat your people right.

Yup. They will be proud to work there and produce.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 22:04 
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3308
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:
Having flown a lot in the flag the last few weeks, which requires the inertial separator and going slow does make me think about the advantage of high altitude. Even RVSM would be nice as I've been just below the tops on several occasions. Still Michael the TBM is a remarkably versatile machine!


Tony, what is the SOP for using the inertial separator and how much is the performance hit?

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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 22:17 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6346
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Don,

I'm not Tony but I'll start. Any visible moisture it should be engaged. Down low say below 10' not much affect. 10-18 starts to impact power gradually. Don't have charts close. Higher the altitude the more impact. Low 20's climb can be extremely anemic. Add ice and I'm leveling out or changing altitudes , lower. BTDT

At high speed cruise the difference is significant. My speed drops from 304kts TAS to ~ 260-65. Memory.

Seldom see moisture at all up high in cruise. This has only impacted me a few times for any length of time in over 800 hours in the TBM. L850

Stayed in FL today rather than fight Tstorms, severe Turbulence, tornadoes and ice in GA on my route out of FL to IN.

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Chuck
KEVV


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 Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 23:09 
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Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2678
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
what is the SOP for using the inertial separator and how much is the performance hit?

Sat right seat in an 850 for a few hours recently and was surprised by this also...significant loss of TAS, and increased workload...due to benign cirrus clouds.
Is this standard for all TP Pratt/Garrett engines?

_________________
Jack
N441M N107XX


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