I'm helping a buddy purchase a 1971 Arrow and have a question on exactly what it is.

Serial number - 28R-7135197

I believe this serial number is a late 1971 serial number and would be an Arrow II with the 5" longer fuselage. Can anyone confirm this?

This airplane is listed as a 180hp, but I thought they discontinued the 180hp in the 60s. Can someone help me here?

The Bluebook says that S/N should be a 200 HP (1971 was the last year Piper produced both 180 and 200 HP versions). It also shows 1972 (starting S/N 28R7235001) was the first year with the 5" longer fuselage and larger tail.

Allen

Would someone be willing to run a VREF on the airplane? 3000TT, 850SMOH, 430W autocontrol III AP, Excellent paint, original interior with some rips in the front seats, ALT Hold module.

VALUE ITEM $RETAIL $WHOLESALE
BASIC PRICE 49,000 40,572
ADDS/DEDUCTS 0 0
AIRFRAME 3,300 3,300
ENGINE(S) 1,950 1,950
CONDITION 0 0
TOTAL: $54,250 $45,822

Didn't do the "add for" for the paint or 430, or deducts for original interior.....just a quickie value based on the TT and SMOH.

You can get a nice "C" or "E", maybe even an "F" model Mooney for that money. Why buy an Arrow ?

Primary trainer

The CG on those can be a booger unless one of the folks up front is a lady or small guy. The FAA back then planned on most of us being a bit smaller in height and stature as did aircraft manufacturers. If you have a few FAA standard adults up to 170 in the front it is well within forward CG. With a few 225 pounders that CG starts to get a tad forward and you need to start adding weight (and straps to hold that down) in the back.

If they are looking for a complex trainer for the line they might want to consider a 182RG, which has a great useful load and an amazing CG envelope as well as the ability to support both High Performance and Complex sign offs. That comes with the penalty of about a 15-20% increase in operating costs for that IO-540 and a 40% premium on the cost of a well-equipped aircraft as compared to the Arrow. A husband and wife instructor in this area use a Cardinal RG, which also has a nice useful load and decent CG envelope as well as an amazing view out the side and fuel burn as well as sits behind an IO-360. It is a really nice Brand X product for someone doing personal travel or time building and wanting to fly behind an IO-360 and do about 145KTS on 8GPH and change.

If they are considering something for personal travel there are plenty of good Beech products out there to include the Bonanza and Deb. Again, they are more expensive than the Arrow.

Hopefully you all get a good A&P to do a thorough pre buy on the aircraft. With Arrow values that low there are some folks that will defer maintenance. You don't want to get stuck holding the bag when that expensive annual hits unless it is negotiated well into the price.

That's my $0.02.

I had a 1969 Arrow many years ago with the 200 hp engine. I believe the 71 is the same airplane. It flys like a turd but you get used to it. Book doesn't say so but one notch of flaps for take off makes it want to fly. Otherwise it drags its butt, skips the mains a time or two before it realizes it is an airplane. The gear are funky electric over hydraulic with limit switches everywhere. If the system looses pressure the pump comes back on.

They are a pretty good instrument trainer and carry a pretty good payload if all 4 cylinders are doing their job. I would buy another in a pinch but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Robert

Tell him to hold out for an arrow II.... the serial number will be as someone listed above.
I had the 8th arrow II made and the extra 5" are critical to use the rear seats.
Just my opinion... I liked the arrow II, but prefer my Bo.

I've got skads of time in Arrow 2s and 3s.

Completely harmless airplanes. Gear comes down by itself if pressure is lost. As a matter of fact, that's what the "alternate extension" does...just vents the pressure. Some still have the auto-extend, which takes some futzing to get used to if you're doing training.

Manual flaps. Nothing to break there.

2s come down like a rock. 3s with the tapered wing seem to glide a bit better.

Can't go wrong with either if the normal Cherokee gotchas are watched. Stable IFR platforms. Reasonably comfortable and anyone who's ever turned a wrench can work on them.

Can't speak to 180 HP 1s, 4s or turbos of any vintage. I want to say the turbo models have a fixed wastegate, which makes the power kinda squirrelly.

Best,
Rich

Arrows are really the best retract trainer ever. Simple and cheap to keep, the gear mechanism is very simple and robust. If it loses hydraulic pressure, the gear come down. In fact, the emergency gear down control is a valve that releases the pressure in the hydraulic system.

They did come with an automatic gear-down system that has its own pitot tube on the side of the airplane. There was a SB on disabling it, and another SB on re-enabling it, so you'll need to see what's actually on the plane.

I don't have my lexicon of PA28 serial numbers handy, but I think the 71 in your case could be either a 180hp or 200hp. A photo of the engine will quickly say which it is, the 180hp is a parallel valve Lycoming O360, the 200hp is the angle valve version. The valve covers are distinctive and immediately recognizable.

Most flight-school operated ones are beat to poo and fly like crap. There are some owner operated ones that have been well cared for and are pretty good personal airplanes. The 180hp early model a great bargain and well cared for (properly rigged especially) are good personal transportation machines, generally faster than the later models of Arrow with the longer fuselage and tapered wings and 200hp engines. A friend of mine has a 180hp 69 Arrow that is a solid 141kt airplane on 9gph. It is a well-doted on example, but has no "go-fast" bolt ons other than the improved wingtips.

I bought a 1973 Arrow II about a year ago and couldn't be happier. For the money, it is a great airplane. The maintenance is pretty low key if it's in good shape.

Arrow II's are harder to find than older Arrows but if you find the right one, it's worth it.

Make sure that the fuel tank SB has been complied with for the flexible lines and spar inspection. I ended up doing mine after the purchase and with no extra problems it cost about $1,200.

I paid about 55K for mine with 3,600TT, a 100 hour engine and prop, most Knots-2-U speed mods, and decent avionics (Apollo 60, KX-155, Garmin MX20 (which I immediately upgraded to GMX200), and JPI 700. The paint is older but a 10/10 (from 10 feet away it is a 10) and the interior is some sort of vinyl but nice.

It doesn't fly as nice as a Beechcraft but the premium in price and cost of parts and maintenance are absent also.

If you just need a trainer, fun plane, or something for a just few hour trip the Arrow II is great.

Eric

The biggest drawback to the PA28R series that I can think of is that some of the older aircraft do not have heated pitot masts for the gear warning, nor do they have the pin to keep the gear up. So there you are, in a relatively underpowered airplane, stuck in the ice, speed decreasing, and "Surprise, " down go the gear. Then your stuck manually holding the gear override lever up.... unless you brought a rubber strap to strap it to the back seat!

Jason

That's what passengers are for. If you're in ice in an Arrow they'll need something to distract them from mortal terror.

How many have pitot heat but no mast heat? Our 1972 club Arrow has both heated.

I don't know if mine has the heated mast or not. I am going to check next time I'm at the airport. That being said, many Arrows have had the auto-extension feature removed per an STC.

Even if not, avoiding ice would be the best course of action. While the Arrow is a great IFR travelling machine, if you need true all weather (deice) you may need to shop for a different airplane and price point.

E