24 Apr 2024, 07:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 28 Nov 2016, 21:00 |
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Joined: 05/04/11 Posts: 452 Post Likes: +98 Location: Covington, GA
Aircraft: 421C, 58
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Glareshield does not come out, but access is better from under the panel compared to the bo (no seat tracks digging in your spine). Also there is access to behind the instrument panel through the forward baggage compartment.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:48 |
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Joined: 11/20/14 Posts: 6478 Post Likes: +4566
Aircraft: V35
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What I've heard about the t tails is that they essentially limit you to longer runways. Due to lower elevator effectiveness, needs more speed and hence room to take off and land.
As others have said, the flat floor on the Pipers is more comfortable than the Bonanzas when working under the instrument panel. My Archer did not have a removable glareshield, everything was done from under the panel.
It's great that all five in your family travel together. I do hear from families that as the kids get into teenage years there are less all family trips...and pretty soon a four seater will work again for most of not all trips.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 28 Nov 2016, 23:55 |
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Joined: 12/03/09 Posts: 309 Post Likes: +33
Aircraft: Piper Aztec D
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OK, Mike, it's my turn. I actually own a T-tail Lance currently and will give you the "facts".
Similar to you, I came from a Debonair (which I sold right here on BT) before I purchased the Lance II. I have owned it for 3+ years now. Like you, my boys were (are) growing fast and we quickly ran out of useful load in the Deb. My considerations when shopping for a six-seater were the big 3: C210, A36, and P32R (Lance or Saratoga).
I am sure that the C210 is a fine plane, but it felt small to me, particularly in the back. We make several long trips a year, and I just wasn't feeling it in the Cessna.
The A36's that I could afford were typically high engine and/or airframe time and all needed avionics to boot. I do enjoy the feel and the speed of Bonanza, but that comes at a premium.
That left me with the Lance. The one I ended up buying had a fresh major on the engine (10 hours), low time 3-blade prop (400 hours), nice paint, club seating, a functional autopilot, and an IFR enroute GPS. Basically my minimum criteria. What sealed the deal was the Lopresti Cowl. It really makes the plane look modern and adds some knots from what I understand. I wouldn't know because I have only operated this plane with it already installed.
Loading the plane is awesome. It has nearly 1400 lbs of useful and a CG that is very forgiving. There is a front baggage area with a separate door as well as the rear cabin/cargo door that makes easy loading of pretty much anything you want.
Comfort is probably its greatest trait. In most all of the planes I have owned before (Cherokee, Mooney, Deb), the pilot and copilot are rubbing shoulders. Not in this plane. Its enormous in the front seats. The rear seats also have plenty of shoulder room and head room.
Cruise performance is respectable. I generally cruise at 155 kts between 8-10,000 ft burning 16.5 gph. My cylinders are not balanced with a 1.5 gph spread, so I am installing GAMI's this winter. I anticipate 1 gph reduction in fuel burn. Even with this spread, I can run LOP, but I generally do not due to concern over the large spread. I will once GAMI's are on.
Takeoff performance is also of no concern. I have heard all of the talk on the t-tail and its short comings, but I just don't see it. Full disclosure: I have installed every gap seal, fairing, and speed mod available, so maybe a stock Lance II would change my opinion. Fully loaded, I can easily get off the ground in 2000 feet on a hot day and climb between 500-1000 all day long. Taking off in the winter, 1000+ fully loaded and 1500+ lightly loaded is entirely possible. What more do you need?
Landings are also a none event once you get used to the feel. The use of trim during landing is absolutely necessary. When I first began flying the plane, I nearly landed on the nose due to the unexpected back pressure necessary to bring the nose up. Once I got the trim strategy down, landings have been comfortable. I routinely fly into 2500 ft grass strips.
That's my educated opinion on the Lance II. I hope it provides you with some insight. Feel free to PM me and we could exchange numbers if you would like to talk.
Blue Skies, Jeff
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 29 Nov 2016, 00:52 |
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Joined: 12/26/12 Posts: 41 Post Likes: +27 Location: Coloma, WI
Aircraft: PA32R-300
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Mike, I was just in the same exact position as you. My family has grown to six total and we didn't fit in the archer any more. In the worst way I wanted an A36 (for the same reasons--speed, fuel burn, handling, and just because it is a Beech) but I ended up letting my true mission dictate and bought a '77 Lance.
I couldn't be happier!!
I found one that is very well updated and equipped (for what I thought was a steal). It has all speed mods except the howl cowl and I am seeing 160kts tas. That is at 75% power and burning 16.5-18gal/hr. That number is off the Aspen 1000. It also has a garmin 430w, 530w, Avidyne 600tas traffic, 330 transponder, and 340? audio panel.
There are nice ones out there if you have a little patience. I like the fact that I have an IO540/normally aspirated rather than either of the continentals in the A36. (To many cylinder issues and now another cylinder AD) I only have 11 hrs in it so far but am very pleased!!
If you want more info send me a PM with your number and I will give you any info I can help you with.
Matt
_________________ Common sense goes a long ways!!
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 29 Nov 2016, 00:54 |
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Joined: 12/26/12 Posts: 41 Post Likes: +27 Location: Coloma, WI
Aircraft: PA32R-300
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Thought I would add a picture of my new ride.
Matt
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_________________ Common sense goes a long ways!!
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 29 Nov 2016, 12:30 |
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Joined: 06/17/14 Posts: 5018 Post Likes: +1951 Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
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I have to echo what Don noted. I used to fly an 86 Turbo Saratoga and loved it. One of the pilots (not me!) put it through a thunderstorm and it came out in one piece but there was a few oblong holes in the exhaust stack and a few dents.
It is a sturdy plane with a lot of UL and the turbo worked well. Given the entry doors, you might want a cargo net to go up for little kids in the back. Granted, for their oxygen needs until they can wear cannulas, you would want to stay lower and not be able to use all the capabilities on the 32-301T.
The Cherokee 6 is also pretty nice.
The other thing to consider is that the buy in on a Bo may be higher but they are solid aircraft and there are plenty of helpful people and Cheap Son of Beeches that help people help themselves.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 30 Nov 2016, 13:55 |
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Joined: 07/04/11 Posts: 1712 Post Likes: +242 Company: W. John Gadd, Esq. Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
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Username Protected wrote: My family has expanded to 5 members total. I have been browsing Piper Lances and A36's. I would love an A36 but I just don't think I can afford the buy in for it, so that leaves me with a Lance. I want something that's reasonably fast like my H35. What is there to lookout for on the Lances? The T-tail seems like a better value. Do the Lances have a removable glare shield like the bonanzas with the speed slope windshields? We had N999M before 408T. The Lance is a 145-150kt plane at best from what I recall. WJG
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 30 Nov 2016, 23:12 |
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Joined: 11/29/10 Posts: 1861 Post Likes: +1468 Location: KBJC - Broomfield, CO
Aircraft: PA46
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Username Protected wrote: Michael,
Someone with actual experience needs to share with you the slow flight/landing characteristics of the T-tail models. I would only be repeating what I've heard from owners. I haven't had the pleasure to fly one myself.
It may be why they are a little cheaper..... I was partner in a T-Tail Lance before it was lost. Sad story Pluses: Roomy - Holds a ton of stuff Passengers Plane 155kt airplane (which was a step up from my Skymaster) Minuses: Glides like a manhole cover Handles like a dump truck Climbs like a pig when light and a bigger pig when heavy Don't let it get slow on final Seriously. DO NOT let it get slow on final (I can send you the NTSB report a survivable ugly pancake on the runway and and an uglier fire) Personal Opinion Wouldn't own one again. IMHO a T-Tail Lance requires a lot of respect and currency.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 30 Nov 2016, 23:33 |
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Joined: 02/26/13 Posts: 1373 Post Likes: +442 Location: KSEF
Aircraft: Be-24 Beech Sierra
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Flew the Lance up in Kotzebue Alaska, loved it. The speed was okay 145 kt's do not recall burning 14 per hr I think I was burning 12 GPH. Great airplane. Carried everything the villagers needed, lots of weight dirt runways it was fun to fly very low above the tundra on the empty legs. I wouldn't mind having one now, or maybe the two engine version Seneca.
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Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions Posted: 01 Dec 2016, 16:45 |
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Joined: 03/11/12 Posts: 283 Post Likes: +151
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I had a 76 Seneca 11 for 10 years and 1,400 hours. I was a great plane. Very benign single engine handling with counterrotating engines and a vmc of 66 kts. 13,000 single engine ceiling. My wife loved the room and back door for easy entry and exit. I figured 165 kts at 22 gph but that was before we (I anyway) knew about lean of peak.
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