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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 17:03 
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Joined: 02/14/09
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Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
Great mentoring story. :clap: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 18:55 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
RVSM Change in requirements
FAA Eases RVSM Application Process
The U.S. FAA enacted a rule yesterday that should ease the application process for operating in reduced
vertical separation minimum (RVSM) airspace. The rule revises the agency's requirements for an
application by "eliminating the burden and expense of developing, processing and approving RVSM
maintenance programs."
As a result of this revision, the FAA said that an applicant to operate in RVSM airspace "will no longer
be required to develop and submit an RVSM maintenance program solely for the purpose of obtaining an
RVSM authorization." The agency reminded operators that "because of other, independent FAA
airwmihiness regulations, all aircraft operators remain required to maintain RVSM equipment in an
airwmihy condition."
Although there were slight variations, many of the comments submitted in opposition to the proposal
claimed that easing the regulatory requirements for an RVSM authorization would reduce aviation safety.
The FAA reiterated that this final rule "eliminates an application requirement, and leaves intact FAA
requirements to maintain RVSM equipment and operate RVSM authorized aircraft in an airworthy
condition." The new rule takes effect on August 19.

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Mark Hangen
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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 20:07 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
RVSM Change in requirements
FAA Eases RVSM Application Process
The U.S. FAA enacted a rule yesterday that should ease the application process for operating in reduced
vertical separation minimum (RVSM) airspace. The rule revises the agency's requirements for an
application by "eliminating the burden and expense of developing, processing and approving RVSM
maintenance programs."
As a result of this revision, the FAA said that an applicant to operate in RVSM airspace "will no longer
be required to develop and submit an RVSM maintenance program solely for the purpose of obtaining an
RVSM authorization." The agency reminded operators that "because of other, independent FAA
airwmihiness regulations, all aircraft operators remain required to maintain RVSM equipment in an
airwmihy condition."
Although there were slight variations, many of the comments submitted in opposition to the proposal
claimed that easing the regulatory requirements for an RVSM authorization would reduce aviation safety.
The FAA reiterated that this final rule "eliminates an application requirement, and leaves intact FAA
requirements to maintain RVSM equipment and operate RVSM authorized aircraft in an airworthy
condition." The new rule takes effect on August 19.


Mark, can you explain that to folks like myself who are RSVM equipped/certified to 30k but who do not have the RSVM paper stamp

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 00:11 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
My understanding is the aircraft should be certified RVSM as should the pilots. It these two conditions are met the operator leases an RVSM trained pilot who is type rated in the aircraft and you are good to go.

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Mark Hangen
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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 01:07 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Weather system on the way home. IMC in the "the overhang". A few jolts. Passed within a 1000 feet of a 747. He too was ImC in the overhang. Closure rate was 890kts. Please...nobody get the yips please.

By the time we launched the weather was on top on the route. Chicago was great. I asked for MKG and then HIC. Insta clear. Feel free to deviate. Flew whole route in to overhang. Really not w a problem.

Note the resolution between Garmin and ADS-B. Both are on GP on the ipad. The Gamin WX is higher resolution and was taken on the ground.


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Power of the Turbine
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Last edited on 22 Jul 2016, 21:03, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 06:55 
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4800
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
Quote:
Passed within a 1000 feet of a 747.


A couple of months ago heading west at 400, traffic called right to left an a380 at 410. They passed virtually in front of us, it was a little like the opening of the Star Wars movie. We were warned about possible wake, but passed by before it could settle.

Kodak moment, couldn't get my phone out in time.

Jeff

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soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 08:44 
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Username Protected wrote:
Weather system on the way home. IMC in the "the overhang". A few jolts. Passed within a 1000 feet of a 747. He too was ImC in the overhang. Closure rate was 890kts. Please...nobody get the yips please.

By the time we launched the weather was on top on the route. Chicago was great. I asked for MKG and then HIC. Insta clear. Feel free to deviate. Flew whole route in to overhang. Really not w a problem.


Cool flight. So what do you mean by the "overhang"? You fly at about 20k all the way home?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 10:32 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
Passed within a 1000 feet of a 747.


A couple of months ago heading west at 400, traffic called right to left an a380 at 410. They passed virtually in front of us, it was a little like the opening of the Star Wars movie. We were warned about possible wake, but passed by before it could settle.

Kodak moment, couldn't get my phone out in time.

Jeff


Yea, I love that and when you get a heads up for military traffic passing close by.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 10:45 
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Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 10790
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Location: Cambridge, MA (KLWM)
Aircraft: 1997 A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
A couple of months ago heading west at 400, traffic called right to left an a380 at 410. They passed virtually in front of us, it was a little like the opening of the Star Wars movie. We were warned about possible wake, but passed by before it could settle.

Kodak moment, couldn't get my phone out in time.
Yea, I love that and when you get a heads up for military traffic passing close by.
One night, Kris and I got a point out for a flight of 2 C-5s over North Carolina. They were flying in loose formation and Kris wasn't paying close attention the radios. I got a visual and made the observation about how big a C-5 was and pointed them out.

She looked over, saw the two beacons and looked :bugeye: as she didn't realize it was two aircraft. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 20:35 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14638
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
3 day trip...Marquette, St Pete, Pensacola, Atlanta, Indy, Chicago, Marquette.

6 people.


Fuel stats. Note that fuel cards for jet A is huge.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 20:51 
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Joined: 05/29/13
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Weather system on the way home. IMC in the "the overhang". A few jolts. Passed within a 1000 feet of a 747. He too was ImC in the overhang. Closure rate was 890kts. Please...nobody get the yips please.

By the time we launched the weather was on top on the route. Chicago was great. I asked for MKG and then HIC. Insta clear. Feel free to deviate. Flew whole route in to overhang. Really not w a problem.


Cool flight. So what do you mean by the "overhang"? You fly at about 20k all the way home?


The "overhang" is essentially the top of the mushroom cloud on a thunderstorm that is outside of the core rain shaft (Scott D can correct me). it can contain blow off (hail) and turbulence. It can stretch dozens of miles from the core. You will hear pilots asking to deviate to avoid the overhang from time to time. It is essentially telling the controller that although you don't see precip on your scope we see stuff that we want to avoid. This storm system was so large you couldn't depart Chicago without flying under or through it. It was mostly smooth.

We flew at FL270.

This is the view as we descended out of it north of Traverse City.:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2016, 12:38 
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So Mark. What about the "hail" issue with going through the overhang? We don't see that much down here but using some other weather sites that have a hail probability chart. Seems there's a lot more up north. Is the hail generally in front of these things?

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2016, 14:38 
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I thought the hail was the worst under the anvil, yes the downwind side.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2016, 15:28 
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Joined: 07/11/11
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Location: Woodlands TX
Aircraft: C525 D1K Waco PT17
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3+20. KSAW to KPIE (St. Pete) 4000lbs fuel . 1140nm. 363kts TAS. 1,194lbs/hour. $3.00 gal from fuel program. 588 gal. 175 gal hour. Turb required FL290 for half the flight. 13 knots faster than other II's I have flown.

Pretty rugged weather. 30 min IMC picking way around 60,000 foot storms. NEXRAD said we were flying in extreme precip with lightening. Radar said we were good. It did not disappoint. NEXRAD only and I am dead.

Have to know your radar and its limitations and then trust it.
lots of work sp

Hey Mark - here are some numbers from the CJ. Yesterday was a long day. Going high makes a big difference in the block fuel burn - a 29% difference between flying at FL350 vs FL400/410.

Leg 1
    MMQT to MMML - 1091 nm
    Fuel used at MCT (FL400) - 2200 lbs (323 gallons) - block burn = 674 pph
    Time - 3:16
    Block speed - 351 kts with a 4 knot tailwind
    ISA +4C at FL400
    $2.04 fuel with EVO-Jet
    Nice weather but damn hot in Mexicali - 49C (120F)! It was a good thing we were there for only a few hours for a plant visit.

Leg 2
    MMML to MMLP - 575 nm
    Fuel used at MCT (FL350) - 1560 lbs (229 gallons) - block burn = 866 pph
    Time - 1:48
    Block speed - 319 kts with a 20 knot headwind
    ISA +14C at FL350
    Great seafood at La Paz - and I mean great. Tried the sea snails and they were awesome.
    Great weather except for the headwind.

Leg 3
    MMLP to MMQT - 604 nm on paper - probably >800 nm with deviations
    Fuel used at MCT (FL410) - 1810 lbs (266 gallons) - block burn = 670 pph
    Time - 2:22
    ISA +3C at FL410
    Block speed - who knows but around 333 with all kinds of winds
    Weather was awful on the way back - lots of deviations to avoid very large buildups at night. I probably wouldn't have tried this flight on my 340 as the line of TX was solid down the west coast. Having satellite weather, a solid radar and stormscope was the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2016, 15:33 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 14638
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Great stuff Alex. Snails in Mexico? I don't even drink the water!! :rofl:

That said, they look great.

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