BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jul 2016, 16:14

What's an E50P?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jul 2016, 17:04

Username Protected wrote:

What's an E50P?

Icao code for the Embraer Phenom 100.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2016, 01:03

Username Protected wrote:

I flew an E50P when they were first introduced. Having come from a career in Gulfstreams
maybe I expected too much. The brakes, which I guess, have been fixed were absolutely
the worst ever. The were no speed brakes, ground spoilers or any type of thrust attenuation. Wet stopping distances were enormous. The airplane was like a lawn dart.

There were engine corrosion issues that required repetitive compressor washes. P&W was very difficult to deal with on warranty issues. This lack of warranty coverage goes back to the early 70s. I still get a bad taste in my mouth over their lack of responsibility.

Pressurization was fine and never had an issue. G1000 was great.

Heated DV windows were fine, but no heat on the side windows rendered them useless
in hot and humid ops. Air conditioning and heat were marginal and cold feet were the norm especially at night. Main gear alignment issues caused premature tire wear.

I thought this airplane would have been a great retirement job-part time. I was wrong. In the end I gave up on the toy jet. it just was not a real go most of the time airplane.

Comparing a phenom 100 to gulfstreams is a stretch. The comparison was with a mustang.

Warranty issues from the early 70s? What's that all about?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2016, 19:43

Have you seen this?

http://www.phenom.aero/resources/librar ... cessna.pdf

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2016, 20:07

Username Protected wrote:

Have you seen this?

http://www.phenom.aero/resources/librar ... cessna.pdf

Enjoyed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2016, 21:05

Username Protected wrote:

Have you seen this?

http://www.phenom.aero/resources/librar ... cessna.pdf

Impressive Cessna "A Team" sales, many of whom are retired now. I seem to recall a counter to that one I should have.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2016, 23:25

I'd love to see it Bruce. I thought the Cessna piece was useful for the OP because it presents the specifications pretty well
For both airplanes and not always to Cessna's advantage.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 00:32

Username Protected wrote:

I'd love to see it Bruce. I thought the Cessna piece was useful for the OP because it presents the specifications pretty well
For both airplanes and not always to Cessna's advantage.

I agree - great share !

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 02:18

Username Protected wrote:

I'd love to see it Bruce. I thought the Cessna piece was useful for the OP because it presents the specifications pretty well
For both airplanes and not always to Cessna's advantage.

I agree - great share !

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 06:47

Username Protected wrote:

I'd love to see it Bruce. I thought the Cessna piece was useful for the OP because it presents the specifications pretty well
For both airplanes and not always to Cessna's advantage.

Bruce - maybe we should keep quiet about the fact that on a LA to NY run, you'd ge there about 1hr faster than any of these two in a Turbo Commander, burning half the fuel... :stir:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 08:33

Username Protected wrote:

Adam, as you know there's only one cure for jet fever!

That is true! I'm starting to notice just how cheap the Mustangs seem to be to buy and run myself... :peace:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 09:31

When I read about the Phenom's stats it seems to be more expensive to operate. But Mike Chase doesn't seem to think so here:

http://www.avbuyer.com/articles/busines ... mustang-2/

Where his trip analysis seems a virtual dead heat.

As far as purchase price the delta between he P100 and Mustang has narrowed quite a bit in the last year. With market depreciation rates very similar they are very close in capital costs as well. It seems to me that the value equation may be tipping Phenom's way. That is also the conclusion that JetAviva comes to in their most recent market report.

The P100 is almost an M2 competitor in cabin size and certainly is in quality with operating economics closer to Mustang.

Adam is right Mustangs are getting cheap in relative terms. But for around $2 million what would you buy?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 10:08

Username Protected wrote:

But for around $2 million what would you buy?

...a used Pilatus and 2 condos? :shrug:

Ok, ok, I kid, I kid... :btt:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 10:13

Glenn for $2 mil you could buy a really nice FTM model of a Pilatus and the condos...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Jul 2016, 15:03

Username Protected wrote:

When I read about the Phenom's stats it seems to be more expensive to operate. But Mike Chase doesn't seem to think so here:

http://www.avbuyer.com/articles/busines ... mustang-2/

Where his trip analysis seems a virtual dead heat.

As far as purchase price the delta between he P100 and Mustang has narrowed quite a bit in the last year. With market depreciation rates very similar they are very close in capital costs as well. It seems to me that the value equation may be tipping Phenom's way. That is also the conclusion that JetAviva comes to in their most recent market report.

The P100 is almost an M2 competitor in cabin size and certainly is in quality with operating economics closer to Mustang.

Adam is right Mustangs are getting cheap in relative terms. But for around $2 million what would you buy?

Good question Tony. I have a nice corporate no excuse Mustang all programmed up for $1.6 and a jam up 2 year newer 600 TTSN Phenom for $2.3. The Phenom is an all around more capable plane without question. The engine and airframe programs take the worry our of maintenance. Embraer has engineered a great platform despite the many brake controllers it has taken to get there. We all know and love our Cessnas for better and for worse. I think it comes down to what you like and if you care what a anyone in the back really thinks about the ride, potty, and big windows.

All that operating cost spreadsheet business goes right out the window when planes are off program or more than 5 years old, you are flying 80 hrs/yr, etc. So what do you want to fly? I suggest trying them on. As always, ours are available for you to fly.

Hopefully we'll catch up at OSH.

Bruce

Phenom 100 vs Mustang