There is a distinction between RC aircraft and drones and it has to do with control autonomy. The RC aircraft will crash in mere seconds after a pilot stops controlling it. The airplane does not, generally, have an autopilot (sensors and logic) to fly it autonomously.

In contrast, the drones are unflyable by humans without a semi autonomous control system. This control system stabilizes the drone so the human can put in simplified commands and not actually "fly" the drone.

This has two consequences.

The first is that flying a drone is now accessible to unskilled pilots allowing millions more of them to exist and to be flown by less well trained and perhaps less careful individuals.

The second is that many/most of the drones have semi or fully autonomous flying modes where they can perform certain actions without second by second control inputs from the pilot. With that capability, errors in programming can lead a drone to fly off, NOT crash, and end up in a dangerous place outside the supervision of the "pilot". This can also occur even without programming on certain errors, like a programmed "home" position, or simply flown out of range.

An RC aircraft has neither of those properties. It takes skill, it can't fly on its own.

That's the distinction, but it is kind of subtle to the average person, and to the law.

The RC model airplane guys are struggling with this question politically. They've kind of been swept along with this drone issue since what they do looks superficially the same, a pilot flying a remotely controlled aircraft.

For example, this FAA FAQ on drones:

Q19. I would like to fly my Radio/Remote Controlled (RC) aircraft outdoors; do I have to register it?

A. Yes, RC aircraft are unmanned aircraft and must be registered.

That never happened before drones, now RC models must be registered according to the FAA.

Here is the AMA fighting RC aircraft registration in court:

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov ... -aircraft/

Here is the legal definition of a "model aircraft":

In this section, the term "model aircraft" means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

Notice the lack of acknowledgment of the fundamental control differences I pointed out above. Drones and RC aircraft are the same as far as the FAA is concerned.

I spent much of my youth flying model airplanes, and the recent developments sadden me greatly.

Mike C.

White "drone" technically IS anything that flies and is remote controlled, what we are talking here is drone's operators. My post was based on a simple premise that in order to operate an aircraft - be it a quadracopter, RC model, or a real airplane - in national airspace, you have to be properly trained and certified.

If you operate certain distance from the airports and below certain altitude, you are, for all practical purposes, outside of navigable airspace, so go have a blast with your Walmart drone. But if you operate in in navigable airspace, you should be subject to the same rules as any other aircraft that operates in that airspace.

The substantial difference, as you know, is that most of the drones (or quadcopters) that we are talking about are not nearly as much fun to fly as RC aircraft. They are almost downright boring.

Except... for the purpose that they are really intended, which is a photography (or videography) platform.

It is true that the average guy that buys one for the fun of flying one will likely get quite bored and put it on a shelf in a matter of weeks, if not less.

But the ability to capture amazing, high quality photos and videos from unique positions is a lasting hobby for many.

At least, this is my impression after a very short period with a DJI Phantom.

I definitely do. In my experience most traditional RC pilots are intelligent people that have lots of time, money and experience invested in their toys. A large portion of them belong to the AMA, fly at established fields, and are aware of the rules and try to follow them. Compare this to the average guy that can order a drone off amazon and has never flown anything, which doesn't matter since most of these drones fly themselves.

I think a MAJOR distinction needs to be made between line of sight and POV flying. Traditional RC planes aren't flown POV near as often as the drones are. There is a very active RC field less than 2 miles off of the departure end of my local airport. I have never seen or heard of a conflict with them and real aircraft, and I am more concerned about the kid flying his small drone through a camera at 2000' out of his backyard than I am about the 50lb RC jet flown being flown by line of sight down low.

To be clear, none of this is directed at you or any other commercial operator that understands and follows the rules. We're not worried about you guys. Its the private (and possibly ignorant and/or negligent) guys that I think are a cause for concern.

Ryan,

You are dealing with a powerful regulator. Your industry needs to create a trade group and adopt best practices asap. Arguing that drones are the same as RC planes will open the door for an agency to write the rules for you. You're not going to like them.

Best,

White "drone" technically IS anything that flies and is remote controlled, what we are talking here is drone's operators. My post was based on a simple premise that in order to operate an aircraft - be it a quadracopter, RC model, or a real airplane - in national airspace, you have to be properly trained and certified.

If you operate certain distance from the airports and below certain altitude, you are, for all practical purposes, outside of navigable airspace, so go have a blast with your Walmart drone. But if you operate in in navigable airspace, you should be subject to the same rules as any other aircraft that operates in that airspace.

The substantial difference, as you know, is that most of the drones (or quadcopters) that we are talking about are not nearly as much fun to fly as RC aircraft. They are almost downright boring.

Except... for the purpose that they are really intended, which is a photography (or videography) platform.

It is true that the average guy that buys one for the fun of flying one will likely get quite bored and put it on a shelf in a matter of weeks, if not less.

But the ability to capture amazing, high quality photos and videos from unique positions is a lasting hobby for many.

At least, this is my impression after a very short period with a DJI Phantom.

Gonna have to eat a little bit of crow here.

I have long maintained that for most, it is impossible to see a drone given the difficulty seeing a full-scale airplane. I passed my instrument checkride on Friday (after a week of hell flying about 20 hours to finish it in an accelerated program), and flew safety pilot for a friend to Peachtree City - Falcon Field yesterday for the Aircraft Spruce customer appreciation day. It was a beautiful VFR day, and because of some difficulties passing his pitot/static check in his flying restoration Comanche 250, we were relegated to filing VFR for the trip...no big deal. He got a good bit of hood time in the trip down and part of the way back.

Long story short, we developed some engine irregularities, so after a precautionary landing, we departed back for home with both of us looking outside. As we were descending into our home field, just on the northeast side of Piedmont Triad International Airport, I spotted something about 10 miles west of the GSO VOR. It looked stationary, and at first glance I thought it was a balloon. We got a little closer, and the object that was about 800 feet below us (at 5000 feet) was, in fact, a DJI Phantom quadcopter. We were close enough that I could make out the type. I think the one thing that made it more visible (other than the lights on it) was the fact that the sun was low in the sky, and the ground was dark, and the sun still illuminated the machine very well. Had this been at noon rather than 7:30, I doubt I would have seen it so easily.

We reported to ATC, but I doubt they'll do anything - just like when I was lasered two months ago. I urged my friend to circle the drone, but he wanted to get home because I had about 50 people waiting on me for a surprise birthday party, and we genuinely had some engine issues.

I have enough experience with them that even at 165kt, I don't think we would have had a significant risk to flight safety if a collision occurred, but, I won't be so quick to dismiss people reporting seeing these in the future.

2.6 pound object hit at 165knots? No damage? Think again. If it came through the windscreen, which it would, that is lethal.

That 2.6 pound drone will bring down a helicopter easily if hits in the right place. That's my issue, I fly below 400 feet a lot for work. I already have to avoid birds. Avoiding an idiots drone is not something I'd like to add when trying to land at a accident scene. Drones have already gotten in the way of law enforcement, medical, and fire fighting helicopters.

Probably just going to get worse down low.

2.6 pound object hit at 165knots? No damage? Think again. If it came through the windscreen, which it would, that is lethal.

That 2.6 pound drone will bring down a helicopter easily if hits in the right place. That's my issue, I fly below 400 feet a lot for work. I already have to avoid birds. Avoiding an idiots drone is not something I'd like to add when trying to land at a accident scene. Drones have already gotten in the way of law enforcement, medical, and fire fighting helicopters.

Probably just going to get worse down low.

That video shows wings clipping. If the engine hit the windscreen or critical part it would have most likely brought it down. 11 pounds of metal in a chainsaw size package is a hell of a hit to take.

By contrast I picked up a lady on I35 last week who took a 3 pound piece of steel through the windshield at 75 mph. She died of massive head injuries...... depression skull fracture, right eye gone, most of her face. Car windshields that are laminated are much stronger than our plastic windscreens.

I've hit enough "objects" in my 23 years as a military pilot to see the damage a relatively small object can do when hit. How many object have you hit at 140 knots plus to base your experience off of?

A 3 pound mallard comes right through an AH-64 windscreen, laminated ballistic tolerant glass at 140 knots. Enough to break the nose of the pilot I was training in the front seat. If solo he would have crashed as his eyes were full of glass and guts. Of course that aircraft is not flown solo.

Other than in a store, I have seen one drone in flight in the church parking with father and son. I have hit two birds in 40years. I have seen many R/C planes when I went to the R/C airport.....Is this really an issue?

In my world they are. I fly into Houston, the city, not the airport. We have now encountered drones several times in vicinity of the hospital landing pads and around the buildings which we are landing on.

Additionally if we get called to a shooting or major car accident closer to a metro area high likelihood that someone will have a drone up to capture footage. It is already happening in a lot of cities.

For the average GA airplane owner is it a huge issue? No.

In my world they are. I fly into Houston, the city, not the airport. We have now encountered drones several times in vicinity of the hospital landing pads and around the buildings which we are landing on. Same in Dallas.

Additionally if we get called to a shooting or major car accident closer to a metro area high likelihood that someone will have a drone up to capture footage. It is already happening in a lot of cities.

For the average GA airplane owner is it a huge issue? No.

Life imitating art?


[youtube]https://youtu.be/lDv5kizY8oE[/youtube]