BeechTalk - BT - The new TBM 930 is coming to Sun 'n Fun this week..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 19:14

Username Protected wrote:

Depends on your insurance. I'm required to do IPC in type, that's it.

Every 6 months?

Requiring an IPC is different, never heard of that before for a turbine.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 19:16

My insurance requirement for the C310 is an annual IPC.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 19:27

Username Protected wrote:

Depends on your insurance. I'm required to do IPC in type, that's it.

Every 6 months?

Requiring an IPC is different, never heard of that before for a turbine.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:24

Username Protected wrote:

and lots of people don't want to go to school for two weeks and take annual check rides...

I would find it very surprising if insurance doesn't require yearly type training for a TBM.

My yearly recurrent is 3 days, with a sim partner, for a twin. If it takes you two weeks, you aren't flying the right airplane for you.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:25

Username Protected wrote:

Because they are fast, relatively inexpensive to operate, buyers don't look at all the facts and lots of people don't want to go to school for two weeks and take annual check rides...

I have to do annual 3 days at SimCom. TBM does too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:27

Username Protected wrote:

And there are plenty of people who, for whatever reason, don't want to take the time and stress of initial training and type ride that flying a jet requires.

PC12 initial is 5 days at Simcom. No, not 2 weeks but still a long time. What's another week for the jet? Sucks but not the end of the world.

Recurrent for the PC12 is 3 days at SimCom every year..... Just like a jet.

The training requirements aren't that different especially if the initial is out of the way.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:33

Username Protected wrote:

And there are plenty of people who, for whatever reason, don't want to take the time and stress of initial training and type ride that flying a jet requires.

PC12 initial is 5 days at Simcom. No, not 2 weeks but still a long time. What's another week for the jet? Sucks but not the end of the world.

Recurrent for the PC12 is 3 days at SimCom every year..... Just like a jet.

The training requirements aren't that different especially if the initial is out of the way.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:40

Username Protected wrote:

With that said I like the TBM. I've thought about buying one for several years. And its still on my list of possibilities but I think the limitations I listed earlier are valid reasons to consider other options.

My initial was 7 days. Not 5. I'm mistaken.

Regardless, I'm not looking forward to 15 day initial for the Phenom but I will be doing it. I do not think "training requirements for a jet" are a reason TBM's are so expensive.

And I would still buy a slightly used Mustang over a new TBM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:44

Username Protected wrote:

With that said I like the TBM. I've thought about buying one for several years. And its still on my list of possibilities but I think the limitations I listed earlier are valid reasons to consider other options.

My initial was 7 days. Not 5. I'm mistaken.

Regardless, I'm not looking forward to 15 day initial for the Phenom but I will be doing it. I do not think "training requirements for a jet" are a reason TBM's are so expensive.

And I would still buy a slightly used Mustang over a new TBM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 20:53

Username Protected wrote:

Jason,

Phenom training???

Are you upgrading?

Peace,
Don

I can't bring myself to go do the initial training.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Apr 2016, 21:51

The G3000 is nice, but I'd have to go with the Citation M2/G3000 over the TBM for almost the same price.

I can see where some might opt for the TBM because of the lower training requirements, but those are probably the same guys who should probably be in training for 2 weeks.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Apr 2016, 00:44

I think Tony has a point. It is my very unsubstantiated observation that the clients that buy TBM's, PC12's etc are self made men. They work a lot. They ain't got time for no 7 day recurring, or two week initial or even a multi engine rating. They're busy.

In fact, I've always said that the PC12 and the TBM sold so well because most of its intended clients don't have time or interest to get a multi rating.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Apr 2016, 01:16

Username Protected wrote:

In fact, I've always said that the PC12 and the TBM sold so well because most of its intended clients don't have time or interest to get a multi rating.

My multi rating took 2 days.

If they ain't got time for that, they ain't got time to properly proficient and current in their airplanes.

There is a great deal of myth and fear about getting the ME rating. If you are an IFR proficient pilot of a high performance single, you can get a multi rating easily.

The theory that TBM and PC12 sell well to people who want to avoid training is concerning for the long term accident history of the type.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Apr 2016, 01:25

Username Protected wrote:

The theory that TBM and PC12 sell well to people who want to avoid training is concerning for the long term accident history of the type.

Mental barriers have nothing to do with reality. You go to normal PPL forums where most people are students and dreaming aspirationally about the planes they might one day own and fly, and the interest is in Cirri, TBM and PC12's. Check for yourself. They don't dream of Barons, or King Air's. Because mentally they go "I can fly this thing as soon as I get my PPL, whoop!". That mentality stays as they progress financially. Nothing right or wrong with it, that's just how it is. That's what's made the SETP makers so successful. They've tapped in to the aspirational self made crowd very successfully. The impatient ones.

If we were to check most Cirri, TBM, Jetprop, Meridian and PC12 owners if they have a ME rating, I'll bet anyone right here right now $500 the majority don't. They weren't looking to become an ATP or CFI or have a job. They were looking at the fastest way to get into the equivalent of a Ferrari.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 11 Apr 2016, 01:37

Username Protected wrote:

The impatient ones.

Not actually a good character trait for being a pilot.

Quote:

They were looking at the fastest way to get into the equivalent of a Ferrari.

So they are the moral equivalent of a 17 year old with a new driver's license driving a Ferrari?

Yeah, that's going to be good for the type accident history.

Type school is VASTLY more work than an ME rating.

Mike C.